451. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #250023 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 9:59 pm

Just reject us for European Union please so that Turkish army will destroy anti-secular movement before it's too late.

If islam succeeds in Turkey Europe will never be the same, it will become Eurobistan.

You're pushing at an open door with me, that's for sure. I think the whole EU idea is asinine from the start.

Good luck defending Kemalism. You're going to need it.

Here's a couple of good articles on that:

Turkey: Kemalism on the Ropes


http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/017473.php

The Precarious Position of Turkey

Todayhttp://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015274.php


And this one's particularly good:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/014243.php

I remember how everyone looked down on me at Basic because I refused to go to Chapel on Sundays.

Well, that well and truly sucks. I'm sorry to hear that.

452. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #250021 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 9:44 pm

Titania, I suspect that I am about as likely to observe this rule:

And absolutely no one may pick on Diacanu. Not Ever. Period.

as he is to observe this one:

No one is permitted to call Fanusi a fascist

Moving on, my point, and I can't believe that I have to explain this, is that there exists a chance that we'll get through this war relatively cheaply. However, that would require a rapid growth of awareness, and sober, reasoned study of the risks, all conducted in the clean air and in full view.
This isn't the likeliest of scenarios. A rather more likely one is that the media and our government will suppress or ignore all debate on these matters, creating a general feeling of helplessness which will cause peole to go elsewhere - and elsewhere means the various neo-fascist parties, such as Le Pen in France. Consider how well he did in the last elections.

I remember a while back there was a certain kertuffle because Glen Beck said that if things continued on this way, Muslims would end up seeing the West through razor wire. The chattering classes got their knickers in a knot about his supposed 'advocacy of concentration camps'. They managed to willfully miss the point as usual. The last century shows us what Europeans are capable of towards religious minorities even when there's no good reason at all to fear and distrust them. Just what the hell are we capable of against religious minorities for whom there is very good reason indeed to fear and distrust them?


For the record, those that insist on calling me 'fascist' seem to have relatively little to say anout Muslims outside the EU parliment chanting "Hamas, Hamas!/Send the Jews/To the Gas!"

One final question: Why is calling BS what she is unacceptable, but her absolute inability to use facts, reason, logic and her recourse to the worst kind of smears perfectly acceptable?

Incidentally, just on the subject of the crazy right wingers:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2002/05/11/do1102.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/05/11/por_right.html

:-D

453. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249843 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:58 pm

I said I can understand how Fanusi gets there. I can see it as a possibility. I don't consider it fact. I think there are still other avenues.

I really, really hope you're right, al.

I don't want to drop down to the same level as some and throw out personal insults that are too harsh and neither should you.

Again, twp, 's a fair point. Still, I occasionally want to take a few swipes back.

454. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249839 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:56 pm

Quetz,

You complained earlier that people misread what you right- there's not really a way they can misread your comments to Diacanu.

That's true :-) Anyway, I didn't complain that they were being misread, I complained tha they were being willfully misread.

And if he is slurring you (I haven't read all the comments so I don't know)- why not rise above it?

'S a good question, and I have no better answer than a perverse desire to hit back.

455. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249832 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:53 pm

Fanusi, you originally said "it may be the only way" implying that we are getting to close to having to employ those tactics.

Not necessarily - merely getting to the point where we can't reverse course from the point where that's unavoidable (I hope that makes sense).

Unacceptable. Stop that right now.

Again, given what get's thrown my way, I'm being relatively mild.

456. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249829 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:49 pm

Quetz -

Not called for.

Kick 'em while they're down, ah say.

Anyway, given the kind of smears, slurs and lies Diacanu throws at me, he's gittin' off lightly.

457. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249819 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:43 pm

Fanusi, I think part of the problem is that you are not always careful with your language.

Titania, the way I see it, it is more the desire of certain people to misread what I write, than of my miswriting it.

I have said that at the moment the most plausible scenarion for Europe, apart from rulership by Islam, is a degeneration into neo-fascism.

Now what about that statement is an endorsement?

Now al has a much more optimistic view than I do, and I hope he's right about that. Yet he doesn't take my more pesimistic view an advocacy.

And since we're on the subject of clear descriptions and whatnot:

Diacanu, I am a little worried about you. You are incredibly intelligent and talented.

I should honestly like to see the evidence for this.

458. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249804 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:35 pm

Al, what lie have I told?

That I am advocating fascims, for one.

459. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249800 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Drinking heavily and posting, twp. :-)

I wasnt having a go at Americans ( as Fanusi eagerly tries to show)

I wsan't eagerly trying to show anything. It's just the way it seemed to me.

460. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #249795 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm

TurkishAtheist, the way things are headed, I am forced to hope you're right. That secular military is the only reason Turkey isn't a basketcase.

I'm with Attarturk on this: Turkey was a very decent place before Islam came along.

461. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249790 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm

Sargeist, I'll take a look at that tomorrow, when I'm sober, okay?

462. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249789 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Yes I've noticed, and don't wince-I wasn't serious.

Good, good. :-) Sorry, I'm halfway through my third beer and that means my humorless german side comes to the fore...

463. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249780 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:53 pm

*winces* twp, those terms are uneccessary. I'm just, as you may have noticed, a little old fashioned.

Anyway that profile picture of yours from a while back was quite hawt.

464. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249770 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:43 pm

Sorry, twp, but...

I'm shocked-Since when did you become an apple shiner? :)

A what now?

465. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249762 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:35 pm

*bows* As you wish, twp.

Hard to refuse a request from a pretty lady. :-)

466. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249757 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:29 pm

Actually, not wishing to be too pedantic here, it isn't "someone", it's specifically you.

I am referring to your total inablity to use reason, logic or to study the facts, or even to understand that words have an exact meaning, but instead to hide behind a ream of evasion and swearing instead. That's cowardice in my book.

467. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249755 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:26 pm

Sargeeist, I know the point. The trouble, though, is that demographics is a game of last man standing.

468. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249749 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm

Diacanu, for once you got something right.

Why should I have to pay for your delusions, your cowardice, your hiding away from reality, after all?

"Self-deluded coward, it is" as you might say.

469. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249741 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:17 pm

Well, he can prove me wrong.

Given that I repudiate the fascist position in every particular, I have trouble seeing what else I could do.

And we won't have to resort to it so long as we use our voice,

Your voice won't mean zip against resurgent neo-facism, any more than it will mean zip against the Jihadis.

Sorry to break it to you, but you really don't count that much. It's what large numbers of people believe and the predominantly historical currents (philosophy, economy, population etc.) that matter.

470. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249729 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:05 pm

Oh, I love this asinine 'fascist' comments. Yep, a philosemitic, internationalist, anti-socilialist fascist!

Honestly, do you know nothing at all?

471. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249727 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 1:03 pm

You didn't just say plausible, you said "more and more like the ONLY way out".

Yes you drooling microcephalic idiot. I have said, on these forums for over a year now, that the window for a civilized way out was steadily closing.

The civilized way out is in the form of inteligent, measured assessment of the problem and a cold-blooded, piece-by-piece response. The less civilized way is through mass hysteria.

Now which of these looks like the more likely response? Which is the one most likely to be adopted if we keep on this idiotic pathway? Not even something as dishonest as you can fail to see the answer.

472. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249723 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:56 pm

al, I very much doubt he is, in fact, better than that. I submit myself to your arbitration on this point: saying something is plausible, isn't the same thing as saying it's desirable, correct?

473. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249718 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:53 pm

Sarg, if you could write something like that I'd be very grateful. I'd find it enormously interesting.

N.B. Earlier, when I was using 'you' and 'your' I was referring to Nairb.

474. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249711 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Dicanu, I actually answer that in post 2702. Although, the concept of you ever being able to honestly discuss anything or think clearely is, admitedly, ridiculous.

475. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249709 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Ignoramus. Saying that you see something as plausible doesn't mean you see it as desirable. Why don't you crawl back to whatever spawned you?

476. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249698 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:39 pm

That's weird, actually, considered the role that France played during the war of Independence. When do you reckon it did start?

Damned if I can remember. It's been a long, long time.

Still, it certainly didn't start with Chirac's nonsense.

477. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249688 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:32 pm

There was no animus between the US and France prior to the French refusal to join the Coalition of the Willies, right?

decius, from what I recall, this animus dates back quite a bit farther than that.

In fact, if you do some digging, you can go back far enough to find the complaints that America allows too much racial mixing.

478. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249683 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:24 pm

Is there a contest for dumb and dumber?

I believe it's called 'politics',

If there is the will the U.K can put its foot down on the Islamic hate mongers and fanatics any time.

If our spineless politicos actually grow a spine, that is.

Seriously - if this is what we have now what are we going to face ten years down the line? Twenty years?

The most plausible way out I can see, which is getting more and more like the only way out I can see, is a degeneration into fascism.

Hey, did you see Le Pen's numbers in France? And have you seen the way that even Sikh and Hindu immigrants are forming a common cause with the BNP?

On the other hand, in the US, even after eight years of Bush, the University of Utah's Mario Cappechi still walked away with the Nobel Prize for his work on Embryonic Stem Cells. One of the reasons I admire America is that has a political system designed to function no matter who get's elected.

479. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249669 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Oh, please, al let's feed the troll, preferably to an alligator.

480. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249664 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Sargeeist, what I was asking was that I see the calculations in question, and also that he re-post a document to which he keeps referring. And you can't keep pulling rank about your math skills and then avoid demonstrating them.

My own calculations are posted earlier here. From them, it looks suspiciously like Hugh FitzGerald's one-in-three calculation. Given that Nairb has been stomping up and down about how horrid Hugh is, I would like to see his math.

That isn't rocket-science.

481. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249661 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:04 pm

BS, lying through your teeth as usual, I see. Insect.

482. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249645 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 11:48 am

I have enjoyed reading your responses.

There've been responses? Really? Where, where?

My irritation stems from having to re-ask questions five times before getting an answer and even then not getting a straight one.

483. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249636 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 11:40 am

Surely we aren't really going to start on a nationalist debate are we? No real mud slinging?

Are you sure, twp? Not even a little? ;-)

No, we're not really going to go down that road. It's just that I get really fed up with pompous European anti-Americanism. It's not true and it's unjust.

484. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #249632 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 11:33 am

Americans scare the crap out of me. There are far too many religious wackos in that country

Compared with what we've got in Europe?

The scariest thing is that americans are stupid enough to elect a nutcase like Palin

Given that Britain has introduced Shariah law, I would be a little more quiet about who does what in terms of religious politics.

However, I do suspect that people will still be saying this when Sir Elton John is beheaded for sodomy in Trafalga square...

485. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249628 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 11:26 am

Nairb,

I don't think you can bitch about Americans and then be surprised when backfire comes.

Incidentally, you really, really don't want to start down that road.

EDIT: Okay, not even I believe this. I was hunting down an old site, and I find the following webpage with the fllowing comment:

France
To purchase this domain name, Please contact us for more information.

486. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #249548 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 9:14 am

hien,

Maybe UK should be expelled from EU?

We should be so lucky.

If we want to keep our democracy, such as it is, functioning, we should make like Turkey as regards Islam. Kemalism worked, more or less.

487. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249547 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 9:13 am

Surely you are not saying this article convinced you of anything

Not to put too fine a point on it, but he seems to be onto something here. I mean, there are detail problems, but the broad strokes seem very believable. If you read the news and so on.

488. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249533 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 8:57 am

Nairb, WHY must you HAVE this tendency TO use CAPSLOCK apparently at RANDOM?

"Calm down, dear"

489. Have We Ever Faced An Enemy More Stupid Than Muslim Terrorists?

Comment #249514 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 8:22 am

I too would be interested to see the break down of the different denominations of Islam in those countries where the violence could be rife and how many might actually oppose it.

al is the expert in terms of the denominations but basically, all orthodox schools commend violence towards Infidels.

490. Have We Ever Faced An Enemy More Stupid Than Muslim Terrorists?

Comment #249492 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 7:48 am

Phillip, if you want my seriously gloomy prediction, if this course continues the way it goes, it won't lead to Muslim dominance, but it will lead to re-primitivization of large parts of the world. As jihad-terrorism increases and Da'wa and demographic conquest becomes ever more obvious, more and more Infidels will undergo de-civilization; that is, becoming more and more willing to think what would previously be unthinkable for them.

I trust you don't need me to spell out where this would lead...

491. Have We Ever Faced An Enemy More Stupid Than Muslim Terrorists?

Comment #249488 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 7:40 am

Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

Let's just hope that this isn't so, that their fecundity will drop in time.

Or, failing that...

492. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #249390 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 4:34 am

Unfortunately US and EU administrations are supporting the pro-islamic conservative government of Turkish Republic, in return for foreign investment opportunities.

*groans* Don't remind me. Watching official US and EU policy about Islam is like watching a car-wreck in slow-motion.

Except we're in the damn car.

493. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #249372 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 3:59 am

Aragon, you bring up a good point. We should figure out how to build solidarity with the secularists and atheists of Turkey. Because if Turkey re-islamizes then we. are. stuffed.

494. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #249348 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 2:32 am

All together now:

"But Islam is a religion of PEACE and TOLERANCE and it's so much more SCIENTIFIC! The House of Submission has always lead the way in science for Christendom. What are you guys, some kind of Islamophobes?????"

Now that that's off my chest, I invite everyone here to buy my new book: "Positive contributions to humanity by Islam in the last five hundred years" It's absolutely perfect for picking your teeth with.

495. Turkey bans biologist Richard Dawkins' website

Comment #249294 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 18, 2008 at 12:40 am

And so it begins...

Not wishing to stress the obvious, but we really, really don't want Turkey to join the EU. Not if we don't want what happened to Constantinople to happen to London, Berlin etc.

496. Have We Ever Faced An Enemy More Stupid Than Muslim Terrorists?

Comment #249089 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 17, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Er, al, I was hardly arguing against you there...

497. E.O. Wilson & James Watson on Charles Darwin

Comment #249042 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 17, 2008 at 1:20 pm

Given that Muhammad was the Hitler who succeeded, it's unsurprising he was 'influential'.

498. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249039 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 17, 2008 at 1:12 pm

As I understand it, TFR is based on the average number of births for couples in a given section of society. So that wouldn't take this into account, Bonzai.

Yet think: if we have Shariah in Britain now, what're we going to have ten years down the line?

I've come under alot of fire for my views, but - not wishing to open that argument again - would you guys consider my views more or less extreme than the British state now instituting Shariah?

499. Have We Ever Faced An Enemy More Stupid Than Muslim Terrorists?

Comment #249037 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 17, 2008 at 1:07 pm

every aggression from the West gives jihadis legitimacy among Muslims

PEEP! Sorry, wrong. What gives them legitimacy is their appeal to the core texts of Islam. They always phrase their appeal in terms of Islamic orthodoxy.

Hey, why else would we be well on our way to Eurabia, otherwise? Why do we have Shariah courts in merry ol' England?

N.B.: One of the reasons I am in favour of my 'extreme' policies is that they are a sign of "no more!". Not one inch further to be given.

500. Sharia courts operating in Britain

Comment #249030 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 17, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Nairb, for chrissakes, there are a bunch of links in your comments, and there are alot of comments, so could you please just post the damn thing?

Again: what is this new model that takes that difference into account?

From my rough-and-ready calculations, in two European generations, Muslims will have had three generations. Now, assuming that birth rates remain more-or-less constant (calm down, Nairb - this is for the purposes of calculation) that means more than tripling Muslim numbers in that time (admitedly we're talking about sixty years here).

That's not negligible, no matter which way you cut it. Of course as you say, Muslim birth rates are dropping & so on... so, what kind of an increase are we looking at over that time? Tripling? Doubling? No matter which way you cut it, that is some seriously bad news for high-Muslim population areas (such as France).

Now, I'm still trying to work out how you adjust for a smaller generation-time mathematically, but the point is more about relative numbers. Let's take some rough figures, just for the moment: if we peg the population of France at 60 million (this is just for the purposes of rough calculation, mind you).

The CIA (yes, I know what they're track record is like) puts the percentage of French Muslims at 5-10%. Let's go with the lower figure for the mo' - 3 million Moslems.
Children are born to couples, so that means ~1.5 million couples w. a tfr of 3.6 adding 5.4 million youths to the population. Meanwhile the non-Muslim french w. a tfr of 1.8 would be adding 45.6 million youths to the population - less than the previous generation (57 million). So, we're not talking about one in three, but a one in nine youth.
Not one-in-three, but not negligible, either.
On the other hand, if you take the higher estimate you end up with 10.8 million Muslims and 43.2 million French - nearly one quarter Muslim.
And that's even before we take into account the differences in generation time. Nor is that even one of the more depressing scenarions.
This is not good, no matter which way you cut it. The point that is absolutely key here is that the Muslim population will be predominantly youthful and aggressive, while the native one wil be predominantly aging and passive.

Villkommen zu der verruckten Zeit

N.B.: When you no doubt disagree with these calculations, please, please post the damn alternatives would you?