Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

Comment #242348 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 3:02 pm

Steve, I wasn't talking about what it objectively was, but how it'll be seen.

Comment #242341 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Brandy & Steve I realize that they're not putting this whackjob up as their VP - yet - but it indicates a terrible willingness to kowtow and get chummy with Islam, for the sole purpose of pissing off the Republicans. Sorry, that's not a good thing - not now, not ever. Even if it wouldn't have policy implications (and I bet it will), it's seen as a sign of weakness, another sign that the West will capitulate once the going get's rough. We can't afford that.

At the moment, I really don't give a hoot who goes after the Jihadis (soft and hard). Too much rides on this.

753. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242335 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:50 pm

Brandy, can you even answer a straight question?

754. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242330 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Brandy, just answer this one for me: We're supposed to get all worried about Palin's church & religous beliefs, but we're not supposed to be worried about a fully-fledged Islamic nutcase enjoying the endorsement of the Democratic party?

755. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242326 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:43 pm

robotaholic, if the guy next door is hearing voices, it behoves you to know whether those voices are telling him to paint his house mauve, or whether they're telling him to butcher infants every full moon.

Christianity is largely the former. Islam is almost entirely the latter.

Better get this straight: Islam is a very different beast from other religions. In fact, it's not a religion at all the way we understand it. It's a Total System, encompassing every aspect of life. The four schools of sunni Islam are not schools of theology, but of jurisprudence - law. Islam is also a nation. A Muslim is a part of the Ummah, and not in any squishy, metaphorical sense the way that Christians may say they're all part of the Body of Christ. With membership of the Ummah come some very clearely defined rules, one of the most important ones being to spread the rule of Islamic law, never mind how.

756. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242317 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:35 pm

*chuckles* al can I suggest a vid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdEGJb5W5ks

You know, the more I think about that term, the more it sounds like something from a horror-dystopian piece of Sci-Fi:

"It's near midnight. The lone rebel who defiantly clings to his cynicism inspite of the Iron Laws of the One, is brooding over a glass of scotch in his attic bedroom. Then, his blood freezes. For in the distance can be heard, faintly at first, but steadily growing, the dull, thudding chant: 'Chope. Chope. Chope.

He is never seen again"

757. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242312 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:29 pm

Brandy do you know anything about Islam? Have you read the Qur'an and the relevant Hadith, Sira and Tafsir? Have you bothered to look at Ibn Warraq's excellent essay "Islam, the Middle East, and Fascism" in which he shows, conclusively, that all fourteen of the classic hallmarks of Fascism are inextricably part of Islam? Have you studied the concept and institution of dhimmitude?

Have you read about Islam's history? Do you know about the seventy million Hindus butchered when Islam overran the subcontinent? Do you know about the fall of Constantinople? Or about the endless trains of slaves taken from Europe to the Muslim world? Have you studied the Arab supremacism that's just lead uncountable numbers of blacks in the Sudan to the slaughterchamber?

Do you know about any of that? If you do, why do you wonder that some of us see Islam in an unforgiving light? And no, I don't care a whit for Bush, so drop that ridiculous comment.

758. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242301 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:24 pm

Al, Since when are American muslims considered 'foreign cultures'? Are you one of the fundie brain deader that spews American is a Judeo-Christian country?

Since you ask, yes, as a matter of fact it is, though it's principally Graeco-Roman.

Here are a few differences:

1. The West views the individual as a sovreign entity, whose dignity and freedom must be protected. In Islam, a person's only value is to be a slave of Allah.

2. The West values science and reason. Islam values faith and tradition.

3. The West views men and women as equal. Islam views women as permanently inferior to men.

4. The West abolished slavery. Islam still practices it.

5. The West has tried, patchy though that progress is, to do away with war, and we have at least go to the point where we don't worship the damn thing. Islam is built around the concept of war.

6. The West belives in the unity of all mankind. Islam believes in the distinction of Muslim and kaffir.

Is that enough? Want me to go on? Believe me, I can go on - and on and on.

759. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242293 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Er, Brandy what did that last sentence even mean?

760. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242285 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Al, exactly.

Sam Harris makes, I think, a dangerous mistake when he says that 'pandering isn't as bad as actually believing in it'. It depends on what you are pandering too.

Brandy, we are talking about a terrorism-denyin', Wahhabi defendin', Jihadi teachin' Islamic supremacist. You think Palin's church, however whacky, is as dangerous as that? Girl, pray that you never discover the difference the hard way.

761. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242257 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 1:58 pm

Exactly, Brandy. Also there is this worrying little factoid:

At the Democrat National Convention, one of the speakers was a certain Ingrid Mattson President of the Islamic Society of North America. Here's a few details on her life:

1) Mattson places loyalty to Islam before loyalty to the United States of America:

If Muslim Americans are to participate in such a critique of American policy, however, they will only be effective if they do it, according to the Prophet's words, in a "brotherly" fashion. This implies a high degree of loyalty and affection. This does not mean, however, that citizenship and religious community are identical commitments, nor that they demand the same kind of loyalty. People of faith have a certain kind of solidarity with others of their faith community that transcends the basic rights and duties of citizenship.
2) Mattson on the possibility that Americans may "rise to the challenge of defining themselves as an ethical nation":

The first duty of Muslims in America, therefore, is to help shape American policies so they are in harmony with the essential values of this country. In the realm of foreign policy, this "idealistic" view has been out of fashion for some time. Indeed, the American Constitution, like foundational religious texts, can be read in many different ways. The true values of America are those which we decide to embrace as our own. There is no guarantee, therefore, that Americans will rise to the challenge of defining themselves as an ethical nation; nevertheless, given the success of domestic struggles for human dignity and rights in the twentieth century, we can be hopeful.
3) Mattson denies the existence of terrorist cells in the United States:

There's a prejudgment, a collective judgment of Muslims, and a suspicion that well "you may appear nice, but we know there are sleeper cells of Americans," which of course is not true. There aren't any sleeper cells.
4) Mattson defends Wahhabism:

CHAT PARTICIPANT: What can you tell us about the Wahhabi sect of Islam? Is it true that this is an extremely right wing sect founded and funded by the Saudi royal family, and led by Osama bin Ladin? What is the purpose of the Wahhabi?
MATTSON: No it's not true to characterize 'Wahhabism' that way. This is not a sect. It is the name of a reform movement that began 200 years ago to rid Islamic societies of cultural practices and rigid interpretation that had acquired over the centuries. It really was analogous to the European protestant reformation. Because the Wahhabi scholars became integrated into the Saudi state, there has been some difficulty keeping that particular interpretation of religion from being enforced too broadly on the population as a whole. However, the Saudi scholars who are Wahhabi have denounced terrorism and denounced in particular the acts of September 11. Those statements are available publicly.

This question has arisen because last week there were a number of newspaper reports that were dealing with this. They raised the issue of the role of Saudi Arabia and the ideology there. Frankly, I think in a way it was a reaction to the attempts of many people to look for the roots of terrorism in misguided foreign policy. It's not helpful, I believe, to create another broad category that that becomes the scapegoat for terrorism.

5) Mattson on the negative effects of the end of the Islamic Caliphate:

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Osama bin Laden made a reference that Muslims have been living in humiliation for 80 years. Did he refer to the Treaty of Sevres in 1920 that dismantled caliphates and sultanates?
MATTSON: Yes, he is referring to that, to the overthrowing of the caliphate, which was a plan of European powers for many years. This deprived the Muslim world of a stable and centralized authority, and much of the chaos that we're living in today is the result of that.

6) Mattson teaches the jihadists Sayyid Qutb and Syed Abu'l-`Ala Mawdudi in her course at Hartford Seminary �" see the syllabus here.

7) Mattson praises the jihadist Mawdudi (aka Maududi):

In response to another question, "Please suggest any comprehensive work of Tafseer (Qur'anic commentary) for us Muslim youth," she said, "There are different kinds of Tafseers. For e.g. there are ones that contain detailed interpretations of grammatical aspects of Qur'anic language. And there are others that serve to explain the general message of Qur'an, coupled with the experiences and insights of the author of the Tafseer. However, there aren't really any Tafseers that combine the both aspects. So far, probably the best work of Tafseer in English is by Maulana Abul A'la Maududi.'"

I don't care what Palin's church is like: it can't be as bad as the people the Dem's invite to their conferences.

762. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242239 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 1:43 pm

BrandySpears, you may remember that it was the Great Source of Hot Air, the Goracle, who said, touring Tenessee, that ID should be taught there.

The Dems can be just as nuts when it comes to science. At least with the Republicans you're forewarned.

763. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242232 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 1:36 pm

Brandy, I've re-read Ian's post a few times, and I fail to see how it is anything but praise of Sam Harris that he isn't an Obamaniac.

764. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242195 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 1:05 pm

Under John McSame you can expect more major political appointments of unqualified people

And you think under Obama you won't? If you think that unqualified appointments are bad when made because of cronism, wait until you see what they're like because of Messianic delusion.

765. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242183 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 12:54 pm

Just returning to the subject of the Obamaessiah for a moment, how many here know about this little speech of Michelle Obama?

"Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zone. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Obama will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

Am I the only one who finds that intensely creepy? What if people want to remain cynical? Mark Steyn summarises it brilliantly:

Ask not what your country can change for you, ask how you can change for your country. Good luck with that.

...

I wouldn't mind if it was a high-minded call to a self-reliant citizenry, but you get the feeling all it boils down to is a demand that we take our place and twirl our batons in the 300-million cheerleading squad for Barack! The Barack Obama Show starring Barack Obama. The "shed your cynicism" bit sounds like a scene from one of those dystopian movies where you get slid into the Cynishedder as a bitterly sardonic old crank in a pork-pie hat and after 30 seconds bathed in the rays of the Obamatron you emerge in a turquoise 1970s catsuit with a glassy-eyed stare.

766. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242163 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 12:39 pm

*dryly* We can only hope al

767. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242157 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 12:35 pm

decius,

How about Bill Clinton sending his goons out to trash the reputations of the women he slept with? How about the credible rape charges brought against him? How about the fact that he executed a mentally retarded black man to prove his law-and-order credentials?

768. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242098 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 11:36 am

I'm going to repeat what I said: why are her views on evolution, loony as they may be, that important? The worst she can do is help make a laughingstock out of the rr.

769. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242059 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 10:57 am

al, I'm with you man.

CocoCantare, not wishing to pick a fight, but given that the 'anti-war' crowd seems to be embodied by Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, and George Galloway, while the demonstrations are principally staffed by ANSWER communists, 9/11 conspiracy kooks, and Muslim Brotherhood affiliates - do you see how the 'unpatriotic' impression could have formed?

770. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242039 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 10:36 am

She is a Conservative.
She is for teaching creationism in public schools.
She is anti-abortion.
She is a gun nut and shoots animals for sport
She is a proponent of aggressively extracting Alaska's natural resources, from oil to natural gas and minerals.

NewEnglandBob, I was being turned off her, and now you've gone and made me a major fan.

I'll polish off the difficult one first, this business about creationism. From what I've read she's not exactly advocating that, but let's say that she is. How, exactly, is that a bad thing for us? There are only two ways it can go. She could make noises about it, but do nothing, in which case no problem. Or she could try to press for it, thus bringing the Religious Right into further dispute and mockery. How is either of those a bad thing? Now let's take that lot piecemeal:

"She's a conservative" - and this is a problem why exactly? Being an atheist doens't make you a leftist.

"She is anti-abortion." So am I. So is Christopher Hitchens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCuDEHhHM4

There is one and only one question that is relevant to abortion: Is the foetus a human being? Noone has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that it is; noone has even tried. If the foetus is human, what abortion is is infanticide. Period.

"She is a gun nut and shoots animals for sport"

Oh, gimme a break. In the country of my birth quite alot of young men pass into adulthood in this way: "Here's a spear, there's a lion. Good luck!"

The argument for private ownership of arms is that it is the ultimate preventative of a government falling to total fascism. In Tanzania, where the aforementioned Masai also live, when the socialist fruitbats were hearding people into the Ujama collectivist villages, they didn't even try to start anything with the Masai.

"She is a proponent of aggressively extracting Alaska's natural resources, from oil to natural gas and minerals."

And this is a problem, why exactly? That's what resources are there for. Every barrel that isn't produced domestically is likely to come from Saudi Arabia - thus funding the Jihad.

771. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241976 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 9:10 am

*shrugs* epeeist, smiley or no smiley, I just don't find it particularly funny. I have great respect for scientific and technological acomplishment, and in that field America - redstate and blue - is second to none.

772. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241973 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 9:06 am

With respect Steve, for all the dislikable things about McCain - and there are a lot - he has bankable proof of his character. Obama, on the other hand is a characterization and nothing else. And given that he's willing to, literally, sell his own grandma for politics, I wouldn't trust him an inch.

773. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241962 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 8:57 am

I already told everyone here about a candidate I trule like, Michael W. Laurie, NY. Did anyone comment? No, but I mention a protest vote in the Presidential election and I get an attack from the Obama lobotomy patients who don't even know what he fucking stands for other than himself. Can anyone tell me.

Why, my dear al, it's simple: He stands for "Change" and "Hope" and if you put the two together you get "Chope!". Or something.

The man is a vacuum. A pretty, articulate, vacuum onto which are projected the fantasies of others.

EDIT: Gregg, yes it is. I remember from when I visited Utah. It's beautiful, and it has some of the friendliest people I've met.

774. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241949 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 8:48 am

al, I couldn't agree more about the Obamessiah.

775. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241947 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 8:47 am

decius, Utah is also one of the hottest centers for genetics and ES cell research.

Let's face it: you don't get to be the number one in every single science, number one in all technologies, have the best economy in the world, by being stupid.

Seriously, why do we Europeans get to give ourselves airs? We have a worse economy, a less responsive politics (in fact, as regards the EU we have a completely unresponsive one), and we lag behind in all fields of science and technology. Oh, and we have far worse religious lunatics (and, yes, I'm talking about what's cooking in our Mosques.)

776. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241940 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 8:37 am

Oh sure, epeeist. Dumbfuckistan, right. Like Utah, you know, where the state University is so dumb that it has Mario Cappechi in it who earned the Nobel Prize for his work on embryonic stem cells.

EDIT: what squinky said.

Steve, perhaps you can help me out here

Ron Paul is a creationist.

Wasn't there also some sort of scandal about him and wierd newsletters a while back? I can't remember the details, but I'm sure there was something.

Phillip, you're pushing at an open door with me as regards Bush. In fact, in the spirit of brotherhood, here's the grand explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjAmuXVPZys

Yes, yes, my countrymen screwed that one up...

It's just that I don't think Bush-loathing justifies Obama-worship (n.b. I'm not accusing you of that; it's just given some of the lines I've seen...)

That's the other problem I have with Obama. If we're talking about religious governance, what do you make of a guy who's running as Messiah?

Seriously who is Obama? What exactly does this guy stand for, other than his own vision of himself? Which positions has he held that he hasn't reversed on?

777. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241786 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 4:29 am

A quick aside: a while back an american liberal friend of mine were doing some political analysis over a bottle of scotch. The conclusion we came to vis a viz America's two parties was that both of them produced unbelievable amounts of nonsense, but the Republicans' nonsense was easier to spot, since it came conveniently marked with a cross. With the Democrats you were never sure where it would come from.

778. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241782 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 4:12 am

Phillip, that's a good question. I don't know that much about Biden, but I don't see Obama failing to serve out his term in full.

As regards experience... Well, anyone else remember this?

I have a lifetime of experience to bring to the Presidency. Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to bring to the Presidency. And Obama has a speech he made in 2002

(I quote from memory).

Again, doesn't it say alot that the argument is whether Obama is more or less experienced that McCain's VP?

John Locke,

you may be right in an american context but far from it in a european one

That, unfortunately is a debatable point, with the rise of neo-fascist parties over here. Even granting the point, this is a discussion about the American election.

779. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241776 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 3:50 am

John Locke, when people are scared and things are looking really ugly, they'll turn to those who offer protection. That is the huge significance behind the 90% approval ratings that Bush got after 9/11.

That's a point made by Lee Harris in The Suicide of Reason. He points out that man, for most of his existence, has not been as a rational actor, but as a tribal actor. A rational actor is what you and I are. We can choose to accept or decline this or that proposition, argue with the policies of our leaders, condemn our own society etc. A tribal actor is a very different breed. For the tribal actor, what is good for the tribe, is the good, period.

Here is the hellish paradox: in the tribal world, the rational actor has no chance at all. His only hope for survival is to find a strong tribe and join it. Time and time again we see the regression from rational to tribal. So, if we face a major catastrophe, and a limited nuclear war qualifies, we'd people joining the strongest tribe, or the tribe that appears the strongest - by which I mean, the one most likely to dish out uncontrolled aggression against the tribe's enemies.

780. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241767 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 3:37 am

. Remember, in 2001 Bush barely got elected but after september 11 he had over 90 % of approval rating

Which is exactly my point about a transformative catastrophe.

781. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241764 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 3:31 am

decius, I said the following about elections:

most elections are like being a man on a raft, having to choose between drinking seawater or his own urine.

I don't see how that qualifies as being an 'apologist' for anything.

My views are twofold:

1) I think that a nuclear Iran is one of the most dangerous things that could happen.

2) I agree with Christopher Hitchens, that the Christian Right is just incapable of taking over the country, since they have never recovered from the two victories they achieved (banning Darwin and Prohibition). I see it as a kind of see-saw: the fundie nutcases get louder and louder and then they push that little bit too far - and get floored. Then repeat from start. This is why the Horsemens' books are selling so well, and why they get a pretty warm reception in most places. However there is one thing that could change that balance, and that's some sort of transformative catastrophe. A nuclear firestorm in the Middle East would qualify. I think that absolutely essential to opposing dominionist wierdos is making sure that they can't paint themselves as the only force strong enough to take on Islam.

782. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241740 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:55 am

Just for the record, it's my view that most elections are like being a man on a raft, having to choose between drinking seawater or his own urine.

783. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241738 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:48 am

*groans* epeeist, may I suggest you watch the following video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmToGmw2DDw

It covers the points pretty accurately - plus it's got Hitchens in fine fettle.

784. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241734 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:36 am

I think Christopher Hitchens makes some good points on this subject here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4RFoBJRkOg

785. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241731 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:30 am

sorry i think that problems at home addressing religion in the US and UK are far more important at the moment.

Okay, John Locke , ask yourself this: If Iran finishes its nuclear weapons and strikes Israel, and Israel retaliates as it has promised to do so, and we see the shockwaves of that hideous conflagration around the world - what political forces would rise over here? Who'll assume the reigns of power?

If that happens, the Christian Right will claim its victory without a struggle.

786. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241724 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 2:17 am

John Locke,

This is the first time I've met quantum_flux - and I believe his comments have been expanded to include that "teach the controversy" nonsense since I posted this morning (or possibly not - I hadn't had my coffee then). Ergo, I retract that one.

As regards Iran, I really think you are underestimating just how much damage they could do. Even if we consider them a rational actor - and that's a stretch - you'd end up with a theocratic Shia state dominating much of the Middle East. Think the Sunnis will sit still for that? And think that they'll hesitate to build their own nuclear weapons, if it's demonstrated that Iran can get away with it? Hyperproliferation of nuclear weapons amidst the Islamic states of the middle east? That should be enough to set our guts crunching.

That's the best case scenario. What is more frightening is the Shia eschatology involved. As I understand it - al, correct me here if I'm wrong - the End Times and the return of the Twelfth Imam are to be ushered in by a terrible upheaval. The concept of a nuclear strike against Israel, and the resulting Samson Option seem to fit that bill fairly well.

EDIT: Missed this

dont you feel hard-line politics got the US in the middle-eastern crisis it is in?

That's partly true. The Middle East was divided up by the French and English and they then installed whatever tin-pot they thought the could best control. That was one of the rationales behind the Iraq misadventure.

But there is a more fundamental point: Islam. As long as those societies remain suffused with Islam, they will never prosper and never succeed. They will always be a problem, as long as they remain Islamic.

You can do no good by Islam. Don't even try.

787. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241650 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 3, 2008 at 12:46 am

*chuckles* What you said, quantum_flux.

Am I the only one who notices what it says about the Obama campaign that they have to argue that their pick for President might be more qualified than McCain's pick for VP?

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

As regards the whole election in the US, what Palin's priest says is no less loony than Obama's. And there is one crucial point:

Iran is building nukes. An apocalyptic, messianic regime wants WMDs. Now, which of those candidates is more likely to put a stop to that?

To ask the question is to answer it.

788. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241492 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 11:46 am

*chuckles* al, I was going to ask you. I can only remember the concepts; it's been a while since I read the article in question.

789. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241480 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 11:20 am

Border Collie, as I understand it, it's a mistranslation of a concept. In arabic, there are two kinds of honour. One is the regular one you and I understand: it goes up for honourable deeds and goes down for dishonourable ones. Then there is a kind of honour applicable to women: it can only go down. A better translation would be 'purity'.

790. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241443 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 8:53 am

Bonzai, amen. Those who got science going were both Philosophers and Scientists (Aristotle being, of course, the example par excellence of that).

These days we scientists are just too busy to deal with all that guff. ;-)

Though to be absolutely fair, there are a few (count on one hand) first-rate philosophers of science out there. Daniel C. Dennet being one of them.

791. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241267 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 4:19 am

*chuckles* I try, Hunter, I try...

EDIt: just in case anyone's interested, the sequel to Undercover Mosque has been released. You can find it on YouTube.

792. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241265 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 4:14 am

Come on guys, anyone here can see the article is a positive one. The Forced Marriage Act is a step in the right direction. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with politicians who cater to barbaric Muslim behaviour to gain votes.

Thank you, HunterZolomon. That's exactly what I have been talking about.

793. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241259 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 4:03 am

Ian, I praised Cryer's triumph. This is falsehood - how? I also said, as did the article's headline, said that many politicians were dragging their feet about this because they were afraid of loosing Muslim votes. This is what Ann Cryer said. Now is she, or is she not, telling the truth?

794. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241252 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 3:48 am

Diacanu,

I raise the issue of what is going on right here in the United Kingdom. You apparently care more about the fact that it's me who's posting it than about the horrors going on.

How you managed to live with yourself is beyond me.

795. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241245 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 3:21 am

Steve for the last time, she herself said that. I agreed.

And yes I do have an agenda, which is for this madness to stop. I don't see how bellyaching about how I phrased this or that helps it.

Could we please drop this hairsplitting?

796. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241243 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 3:15 am

Why don't you join me in recognising that the current goverment is actually doing something important and praiseworthy, instead of trying to spread nothing but gloom and doom?

To be specific, I think it's her triumph and she deserves the credit for that. If she pushed the bill through in the face of opposition, then good for her. She's the one who deserves the credit not those that opposed her. And it is she who says that there was and is widespread opposition from her fellow MPs. Now either she's telling the truth about this, or she is not. I have explained why I think she is. I fail to see how agreeing with someone who has the facts is a bad thing.

EDIT: Once again, here is what she said:

Mrs Cryer, 68, said: "There still is a nervousness to talk about this, especially those MPs in constituencies affected by these issues.
"They should be fighting on the front line, but they are the ones keeping quiet on the issue because they don't want to lose votes.
"Some of the Muslim leaders in my area are doing their communities a disservice and trying to keep them in the backwoods. They don't seem to have any understanding about the importance of having integration and cohesion, or to promote women to leadership roles in the community."

Now I think she's telling the truth, and that is why I said what I did.

797. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241242 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 3:11 am

*dryly* John Locke, 'our politicians in action' can imply most politicians, not all politicians. As I said, from reading her site, this looks like she managed to push the bill through after facing considerable opposition, and I'm worried about the bill, once on the books, not being properly enforced.

As regards my 'right-wing agenda' - you may notice that here I have been talking about a completely non-partisan agenda. I have one and only one political agenda at the moment and that is to stop the Jihad.

798. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241237 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 3:04 am

And now has succeeded in passing a major bill on the issue with the support of the Prime Minister. What part of that simple concept eludes you?

After what appears to have been a rather long fight. Also, if she is telling the truth about these politicos attitudes - and I believe she is - then the law in and of itself won't be enough. Murdering teenage girls for honour has always been against the Law, and it still goes on. Surprise, surprise. What is needed is the political will to make the law work.

What is difficult about the statement that if a politician describes the attitudes of her fellow politicians she probably has a better handle on that then you or I?

799. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241235 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 2:56 am

John Locke, thanks. The reason I believe this is that the article is the statements of a left wing politician reported in a right-wing newspaper, which agrees with what was reported by the classical liberal Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and also by Bruce Bawer, a gay American liberal who moved to Europe to get away from the Christian right.

This is a completely non-partisan issue. It isn't a matter of left vs. right, its a matter of right and wrong. Of basic human decency.

Steve on the other hand seems to think he knows more about the political system than those who are actually politicians.

The politician in question having written the following:

Five years ago, when I first raised the question of forced marriages in the House of Commons, I was accused of "demonising" the Asian community and was met with a wall of denial from some quarters. We now see government guidelines for Police and Social Workers to tackle forced marriages and an almost universal condemnation of the practise. Three years ago I suggested that immigrants to the UK ought to have an understanding of English and was described as seeking "Linguistic Imperialism" by many

Now this sounds a lot like what Ayaan Hirsi Ali faced when she was trying to get the Dutch parliament to face up to the number of honour killings that were going on.

---------

Quetz, of course it is.

800. Pakistan investigates 'honor killings' of 5 women

Comment #241227 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 2, 2008 at 2:42 am

Steve cease your whining for once.

She herself says that's being ignored by her fellow MPs. Now, I'm not in the House of Commons and neither are you. I simply think that she might have a better view of the situation than either of us, hmmm?

You may have noticed that I wrote:

For the record, I think that gutlessness about Islam is pretty evenly distributed amongst the various parties here in Europe.

I also pointed out in the past that Pim Fortuyn was very far to the left - though he's now being called a right-winger for his views on Islam. You can file Bruce Bawer under that heading; ditto Sam Harris.

But hey - speaking as a right-winger myself, please feel free to define all those who talk sense about Islam as right-wing. We couldn't ask for better publicity.