51. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256547 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 8:23 am

Nairb, you use that for cheap shots and then try to make nice? Not happening.

As I said, it's something of rant site. Amount of genuine violence caused by nicedoggie.net? Zero, I'd wager (military members discounted of course). Have you never said you'd "kill" someone when you were angry, but had no intentions of doing it?

I have been perusing a few of Fanusi's posts at nicedoggies.net, so far I ve come across a strenuous defence of evolution against a bunch of creotards, and other rants of his that appear to be free of racist content. If anything, he actually seems to challenge some of the popular views over there.
Perhaps you should suspend judgement until all facts are in.

decius, another thank you to you. Geez - over there I'm hammered for being accepting evolution and being pro-stem cells, over here I get hammered for being too conservative.

52. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256543 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 8:18 am

al, Peace, GB, root and especially Sciros, thanks. I appreciate it.

N.B.: al, I just want to make a subtle distinction: there's a difference between saying that we had an obligation to do something, and that we had the right to do something. If we were obliged to stop Milosevic - the reason being, presumably, that he was engaged in genocide - then we must have been obliged to stop Saddam and we certainly didn't have the right to ignore Darfur.

That's the reason for the distinction. I think it was right to stop that ghastliness, though I quibble about how it was done, but I don't think there was a moral obligation.

Sorry to split hairs like this.

------------------------------

Steve, what, exactly, is "racist" there? The word "saracen" refers to a jihadist, in the same way that "Turk" simply meant a Muslim raider (hence in Italy the phrase Mama, il Turchi!.)

As I said, it's something of a rant site.

53. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256519 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 7:46 am

al, good to see you! How're things?

(I've no idea what you mean by "gayed up", so you don't need to duck).

----------------

I'm rather enjoying myself here:

On the subject of equal rights for ALL people, there can be no equivocation from anyone who's halfway intelligent.

Oh, absolutely, Laurie. Thing is, I've just heard from a transsexual friend of mine how he & others like him get picked on at the Pride. So maybe a little prodding is necessary to get them to behave? There's a good deal: no gay marriage until gays quit picking on trannies.

n a few decades down the road, I'm hoping that those Muslims who are now intellectually moribund will accept gayness as natural and normal, like some elements of Christianity have done, after being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Oh, and you can also hope there'll be peace in the Middle East, for all the good it'll do you.

one of the major human rights issues of our time

That's odd, Steve. I thought the major human rights issues of our time were the practice of slavery in the Sudan and Mauritania, the various genocides raging, the nascent struggle for women's rights in the Islamic world, the continual murder of gays and religious minorities in the same... To be honest, compared with that, gay marriage seems kinda tame.

Glancing around this thread, I notice full blown Fanusi derangement sydrome has set in, with people getting really obsessed about what I post elsewhere. But to be honest, this just reveals a lot about the character of those with the obsession:

decius, Fanusi, who claims to be an atheist, thanked people for their prayers!

Fanusi, are you going to tell the folks over at nicedoggies that you are an atheist?

Titania, they know. Here is the little detail you omitted: that was in response to the minor fact that my father was almost murdered. Got that? For me, it's getting very close to home.

Now, one reason I refer so often to the issue of gays and Islam is because I am fully aware that there is no chance in hell that Certain People on this thread will give a tinkers damn about what happens to my family, but they might care a little more when the targets are closer to their personal necks.

For the record - and I've discussed this with al before now - I've had huge arguments about all sorts of issues over there: evolution, stem cell research, the role of Christianity (now and in the past) etc. The thing is though that even when I'm quite literally tearing apart their most sacred notions, I get more genuine respect there than I do with certain fools here.

It also happens to be something of a rant site, where you can get rid of the rage. And guess what, Titania? When it get's this close to home for me, I have a great deal of rage.

Actually, no, this is too disgusting for words. My father is almost killed. Some people send their condolences amid those - quelle horreur! - they say that they're praying for him. And I - even more quell horreur! - thank them for that.

Now one group offers condolences and support. The other decides to use those condolences as a way of scoring cheap rhetorical points. That just says it all about their characters.

------------------------------------

al, thanks for the support. Thanks for being a genuine voice of reason here.

I have never made a single racist comment in my life, so the hell with the smear attempts of this lot.

I think the real issue, is that Fanusi once said he goes to these right wing sites to criticize the right wingers, this appears to be untrue, he goes to praise them and agree with them. This means he has lied to me, which further means I have to take his comments with a hand full of salt.

al, I'll PM you with the evidence. I have had huge arguments there, which was what I said. I never said I just went over there to argue, merely that I have had my share of loud arguments with Christians over there,

54. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256416 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:50 am

Mitchell, found those comments of yours. Now for a productive argument!

The Utena movie was hardly wonderful, and in my opinion was a mere shadow of the anime it is based on.

Oh come on. Watching the Utena movie is like drinking a champagne and LSD cocktail while reading the best of Victor Hugo.

. Mononoke's awards alone at least show your view to be in a gross minority.

Ah, ah, ah! An elite minority!

I also knew - duh - that Whisper wasn't Miyazaki; but it is Ghibli, and that's what I said. It's by far the best thing of theirs I've seen. "The Cat Returns" is a great number 2, though.

55. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256411 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:42 am

Peace makes an interesting point

Why "probably", Fanusi?

Well, partly, Laurie, because I can just see myself, on the day of the referendum, getting hectored by someone like you about how it's my sworn duty to support this, and then voting no out of sheer irritation.

More seriously, apparently Lee Harris has written an argument against gay marriage. Given that Lee Harris is very intelligent and also gay and in a very long term relationship himself, I'd like to read that argument first. Also, I would be concerned about polygamy down the road...

See what you've done, Laurie? I didn't really give a damn one way or another, and now you're driving me into the anti-corner.

Incidentally, a few decades down the road when the muslim proportion has risen a fair bit, what chances do you see for gay marriage?

-----------------

Then will you please post this clarification on the site Steve mentioned?

No, I won't, Titania; the thread's locked and the current discussion is about whether Russia's going to flatten Somalia, or whether we'll find a way of surrendering anyway (despite being not involved). It would be rude to derail that.

Also, since few here, and fewer still of those hectoring me now give a damn about portraying my views accurately, why should I care what the view is elsewhere?

Finally it isn't that I "support" it; that implies a level of emotional conviction I don't have. I just don't care enough one way or t'other. I'm worried about the chaps killing gays over here on the continent (unlike certain other posters i could mention), and everything else is just window dressing in terms of gay rights.

56. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256391 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:26 am

Steve, either you can't read or you don't want to. What I said was that I had made a similar post on these boards, and when I reposted it this time I forgot to take that part out (it is, in fact, a quote from newenglandbob). Titania got that when she read my post.

I've answered, now, several times, that gay marriage isn't something I'm against, but it isn't something I feel strongly enough to crusade for. There's one or two good arguments against it, along with alot of bad ones, and ditto on the other side.

Am I going to have to repeat this again?

57. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256389 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:24 am

Would you vote yes for gay marriage on a referendum?

What, right now? Right now I'd probably vote "no" for the sole reason of driving you and Steve up the wall. Whatever twinge of conscience I might feel would be compensated by the evil joy I'd feel.

Seriously, I'd probably vote yes. That should have been clear from my forgoing points. What is this harping about?

58. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256386 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:21 am

Even though "if gay marriage is decriminalized polygamy is next" is not an argument at all, but an unexplained assertion, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Mitch, I wrote out my stance on gay marriage; as I was doing so, I remembered this argument so I mentioned it because I hoped it might get some thinking and commentary about it. Which, in fact, you did just now.

I still would like to hear a response to my earlier question: How on earth can anyone prefer Mononoke to the Utena movie?

59. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256379 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:16 am

Steve, now you are just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. I have answered this point here #256347. You're now cutting things apart, ignoring what I said about that, just to avoid having to answer a question.

60. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256376 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:13 am

Well, decius, I maintain getting off oil is a vital matter, so you're kinda pushing at an open door there.

61. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256372 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:08 am

Peace I regard any concession to Islam as a Very Bad Thing, regardless of how innocuous it may seem, taken in isolation.

62. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256369 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:06 am

Peace, sorry if this is a misunderstanding. I was talking about a group, i.e. how you can predict a group will act and function, long term. I maintain that's legitimate.

63. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256368 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 am

Titania, unlike here, the comments on that thread are locked.

Gay marriage isn't something I'm opposed to, I can see the justice of the claim there, but it isn't something I care much about, one way or the other. It's no skin off my nose if it's instituted, and if it isn't, there are far greater dangers to gays in the world today.

Although there is one argument I have heard, which is that legalizing gay marriage is a bad idea, because the next step will be Islamic polygamy.

Why are you mentioning the Americans now? I answered your question about what should be done in France, and you are - hah - dodging all my other points with a complaint about my unresponsiveness.

Oh that is quite simple. It is a tactical move to provide another way to attack Islam

This reminds me of a million comments by the riff-raff that the feminist movement has become on the lines of "Oh, those righties don't really care about women's rights; it's just a way for them to be bigoted". 1) that accusation is impossible to disprove, and 2) even if it was true, the practical effects are the same. Right now, Steve, your long term capacity to live as a gay man depends more on people thinking like me, than people thinking like you.

64. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256359 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:53 am

Mitchell apparently I am indeed taxing your brain a great deal. The point of that was, if you were to ask me to list the Jewish contribution to humanity, I could rattle off a nigh endless list of first-rate minds, and inventions.

You also launch into a long and extremely idiotic commentary on my views, ignoring everything I've written on this. I've said what I advocate, and you are skipping over it. Seriously, what's the point here?

65. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256351 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:50 am

Although this does raise a curious question about your earlier post where you said that stopping Muslim immigration wasn't going to happen because so many people were against stopping it. Well, in the US there seem to be plenty who are against gay marriage. So, by your logic, that's out too, yes?

You still haven't answered my question, Steve.

66. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256347 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:46 am

Steve, please don't tell me you've developed the Fanusi-obsession syndrome.

I believe I made a similar post and commentary here; I just missed taking out the one you highlighted here when I reposted.

If I'm "against gay rights", that kinda begs the question why I'm the one who seems most up on the actual violations of those rights.

67. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256343 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:43 am

Titania, read my list, delete the ones impossible to implement from France, and that's your answer.

i intensely dislike people trying to get condescending and arrogant. That's muscling in on my turf, dammit!

Steve,

You flatter me with making it look like I stand in isolation like some lone hero against your citizenship strategy, but I have to admit I don't work alone. In the UK, all major political parties, the legal system of the UK and of the EU all find your strategy against principles of human rights, and hence illegal

In which case we're cooked and it's Shariah or fascism down the road. Time to switch countries.

Now could you answer my question?

68. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256336 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:33 am

Then it becomes true of all groups. Only a minute amount of people through history have contributed anything of significance. The vast, vast, vast majority have not.

Mitchell, tally up the number of first-rate Jewish scientists and compare this with the number of first-rate Muslim scientists. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Don't remember anyone contesting that

Oh, they're fine with it in general - it's just when you actually use that specific people get angry and huffy.

69. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256335 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:32 am

Come on, I asked you if you supported gay rights for Muslims?

Of course I do. Now, care to answer my question?

-----

Peace, you mean the post with the following line?

Basic logic: I said we were dealing with Muslims, meaning that those who hold those views are going to be Muslim, and you know that as well as I do. That didn't mean all Muslims

Emphasis added.

-----------------

Titania,

These Presidents did not try to exterminate the groups they did not trust during time of war based on their religion or culture.

Wake me when someone advocates exterminating the Muslims.

No knock in the night? How do you think your measures will be carried ou

By a knock during the day, of course. Nice and proper. It'd also be waste of an excellent opportunity to give Abu Hamza's chums an object lesson.

Incidentally, it is a very, very foolish thing to say things like this to me:

Go read some history written by real historians.

You're out of your depth, and you have no idea how far with that little gem.

What pretext are you going to use to round up Muslims for your programs?

Hmmm - "pretext"? I would have thought that shouting and hollering for Shariah and saying that homosexuals should be crucified and stoned to death and that women must never leave the house without their husband and that the Jihad was coming - I thought that was a bit more than a "pretext". But, hey, whatever.

Now, please do go on to tell us exactly the specific measures you will take to deal with Muslims already in Europe?

For crying out loud - I am getting really, really tired of repeating these:

1. A total end to all Muslim immigration to the dar al-Harb.
2. A broad, international alliance against the Jihad.
3. Providing asylum for Infidels fleeing the House of Submission.
4. Helping to end the slave trade, preferably by military means. If that doesn't work, buy and free the slaves.
5. Encouraging the sectarian and ethnic fissures in the dar al Islam, so as to break and weaken it internally. This means helping the Kurds, Berbers and other non-Arab Muslims realize that what they suffer is thanks to the arab supremacism that is part and parcel of Islam.
6. All Mosques to pass a clean bill of health. Any inciting hatred of the kaffirs, or preaching Shariah, or Jihad to be closed, seized and torn down.
7. A manhattan project to get us off oil, or, failing that, seizing the oil fields where necessary. We have to stop the money weapon.
8. This is the one Steve has a hissy fit about: making citizenship in the West contingent on accepting Western standards of human rights, i.e. renouncing Shariah. If found guilty of advocating for Shariah, citizenship is lost, permanently.
9. A broad campaign of cultural imperialism: on the air, on the radio, on the internet, in books, in magazines, in newspapers, it should be demonstrated what Islam is, what horrors it is responsible for, and how there is a better way to live than this.
10. Military intervention when necessary to either stop things like the Iranian nukes, or to stop matters such as the Sudanese genocide (which, thanks to the UN fetishists, has been allowed to continue to completion. Wonderful, eh?).

That's the broad outlines of my policy.

70. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256324 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:19 am

Mitch, if my reasoning hurts your brain, I submit that is because it isn't used to being taxed. I was pointing out that you can, in fact, make generalizations and predictions of large groups of peoples.

, I disagree with your basic premise, that groups contribute, opposed to individuals

For the love of... then rephrase my comments as "Muslims as a group have very few individuals that have contributed...". This is hairsplitting of the worst sort. It isn't as though I haven't spent a long time discussing the individual-group relation in this context.

71. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256315 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 4:14 am

Peace, nice of you to paint yourself into a corner like that for me. 'Preciate it.

You said that all muslims are "retarded and thuggish."

Really? So find that quote, would you? You see, here's a genuine quote from yours truly:

The reason isn't because all Muslims are the same

--------

mord, I was hoping to avoid this, but I don't think too highly of the Nobel Prize for literature. But, whatever. The general point remains intact.


----

Steve, individual exceptions do not change overall trends. It's that simple.

72. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256308 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 3:58 am

Mitchell, peace, mord, for the last time:

1. Muslim positive contribution to humanity has been minimal, and Muslim negative contribution has been huge.

This is because:

2. Islam is so designed that it doesn't just encourage (i.e. command) lousy behavior and strangle off all the good qualities, it in fact creates social structures that make it virtually impossible to exercise good qualities and similarly impossible not to exercise the bad ones.

(an aside: it really is hard to overstate how much we owe to our societies being so constructed that virtue is even possible).


3. This being so, it is possible to predict how Muslim populations will act. Now, I sympathize with the plights of those individuals, which is why I've said - often - that it is incumbent on us to help them break out of the mental prison of Islam. However, I don't see any obligation on us to commit suicide in the process.

Here's a parallel about discussing populations: fifty years before the fact, Friedrich Nietzsche warned that "the blond germanic beast every so often goes on a rampage". This was in the context of discussing an upcoming European-wide war (turned out he go that one right). He also predicted how the German would turn on the Jew (got that one right too).

These generalizations aren't proven wrong by Marlene Dietrich, nor is the generalization about the Ummah proven wrong by Naguib Mahfouz. I'm discussing how these populations, as a whole, tend to act, not how this or that individual exception acts.

73. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256295 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 3:38 am

Jesus, Diacanu, you're level of contributions is so low I'm surprised you're not a Muslim yourself.

74. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256293 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 3:34 am

The muslim contribution can be debated, but is almost beside the point

No, it really isn't. Can you name a first rate discovery by Muslims in the last five hundred years? I mean first-rate. Or a piece of music? A novel? Painting?

The reason isn't because all Muslims are the same, but because Islam chokes off all the best qualities in humanity and encourages the absolute worst. While any given individual Muslim may have sterling qualities, the forgoing tells you everything about how Muslims as a population will act. This is no more incorrect than similar generalizations about the Germans, circa 1940.

75. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256280 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 3:23 am

I read just not individual sentences, but months worth of posts. You say things like "stop Muslim immigration".

Of course. Continuing Muslim immigration is suicide at this point. Stop Muslim immigration, but only expel those that are causing ruckus. Like these little autraliopithecines.

No. We are dealing with some muslims, but by no means all, and I suspect, by no means most

Basic logic: I said we were dealing with Muslims, meaning that those who hold those views are going to be Muslim, and you know that as well as I do. That didn't mean all Muslims.

I also asked you what your grand alternative to Geert Wilders is.

They shouldn't. But to label an entire group of hundreds of millions as "retarted and thuggish" is absu

Really? Let's see now: Muslim contributions to human civilization in the last five hundred years - nil. Muslim contribution to chaos and evil - fricken' huge.

That is how you deal with a group. It's no different from saying that, prior to the British arriving, the Zulu were the top predators in Southern Africa.

Individual Muslims may show sterling qualities, but as a group it's a different matter altogether.

As I said, your "target the group" policies like banning Muslim immigration just isn't available

In which case we're cooked no matter what we do: it's going to be fascism or Shariah and this discussion is pointless.

However, I'm not about to give up quite yet.

76. Brunswick school board to consider creationism teaching

Comment #256262 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 2:45 am

"If evolution is so slow, why don't we see anything evolving now?"

I wonder whether these idiots actually realize what they're saying.

77. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256261 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 2:44 am

I repeat: why should one member of the human family, the retarded, thuggish, useless member of it, be allowed to wreck things for everyone else?

78. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256259 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 29, 2008 at 2:42 am

That is nonsense. Any society that labels all people of any given culture or religion as "little thugs" simply because of their lifelong membership of that culture or religion is far from healthy. It is rotten at the core. It is itself thuggish.

I was referring to the little bastards running those Mosques, the ones who are saying things like "Well, of course we don't approve of the violence, but you can't blame us when the noble mujahideen take the vengeance on you infidel dogs, just like the Prophet, pbuh did (Qur'an chapter seven...)" Etc, etc.

Steve, could you also next time post the whole of my sentence? Because, as you notice, it goes on like this

when targetting the serious troublemakers is functionally identical to targeting the Muslims.

You see, I was referring to your rhetoric as an object of dislike, because it is meaningless. If we're going after unassimilable, anti-democratic, anti-human rights, anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-everything-you-like chaps, then we're going after Muslims. You know that as well as I do.

79. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256185 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 11:25 pm

There are many policies that are needed, such as..

Yada, yada... I was asking you, Steve, what was your grand alteternative on the political scene at the moment. Second of all, I dislike this "no targeting of one groups specifically", when targetting the serious troublemakers is functionally identical to targeting the Muslims. We aren't in trouble because of those crazy Norweigan Lutherans and everyone knows it. Geert Wilders is a politician who actually get's it about Islam, while not belongin to the fascist parties. He deserves our support.

Goldy, thanks for the articles.

Titania, Adolf Hitler suspended civil rights. So did Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, and FDR. So let's get real here. Nothing I'm proposing is "a knock in the night". Muslim immigration has been a disaster for their host countries. Regardless what theoretical hairs are split, Muslim influx has meant a skyrocketing in all sorts of societal probelms (gang rape, homophobic violence, murder etc.) and also brought with it a bunch that are peculiar to Islam.

If we want immigrants, or we think we need them, or should take them, we should put Christians, Sikhs and other infidesl very firmly at the top of the waiting list and Muslims of all stripes very firmly at the bottom. Sorry, chaps, complain to the nigh on five hundred million of you who're partial to 9/11.

(Incidentally, I think that a massive influx of Sikhs would be excellent for all concerned).

Theodore Dalrymple has a good article:

The Case for Mistrusting Muslims
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-dalrymple8jul08,0,5502943.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

Mistrust of Muslims in Britain has developed quite quickly and could develop much further. In my youth, I traveled extensively in the Muslim world and lived for a time in Africa with a Muslim family without being aware of any hostility or antagonism on my part toward the religion or culture (had I been a woman, it might have been different, of course). Contrary to what the late Edward Said, author of the anti-Western "Orientalism," might have thought, I had inherited no anti-Muslim prejudice.

Now, despite friendly and long-lasting relations with many Muslims, my first reaction on seeing Muslims in the street is mistrust; my prejudice, far from having been inherited or inculcated early in life, developed late in response to events.

Precisely. An "islamophobe" is anyone who objects to having their bus blown up en route to work.

UPDATE:

Surprise, surprise:

"Hardline clerics said that further attacks would be "inevitable" if publication of the novel, The Jewel of Medina, goes ahead as planned next month."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3097350/Radical-Islamic-clerics-warn-of-further-attacks-after-publisher-is-firebombed.html


Now, a healthy society would say: "No, there won't be, because all of you little thugs have just worn our your welcome. Kiss goodbye to your Mosque and to this country, because you now officially have twenty four hours to get out and stay out."

80. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255967 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:56 pm

Incidentally, there's no reference to support that accusation towards Geert Wilders.

81. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255959 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:51 pm

Okay, Steve, enough. When it comes to our political scene, he's the best we've got. The only other groups willing to take on Islam are the real fascists.

Where's your alternative then?

82. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255957 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:49 pm

Diacanu, while it's hard to be brave, people will always find a way to be cowardly.

An addendum about the Geert Wilder's speech: he lists the Islamic population of "Europe" at fifty millions. I chased that number down, and it's only so if you include Russia (a staggering 27 million), Bosnia, Alabania etc. All of which aren't historically part of Europe.

83. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255947 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:42 pm

Addendum: Absolutely kick-ass Geert Wilders speech:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022867.php#more

Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam, Marseille and Malmo in Sweden. In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighbourhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities. In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims. Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear "whore, whore". Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin. In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin. The history of the Holocaust can in many cases no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity. In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighbourhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels, because he was drinking during the Ramadan. Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya, Israel. I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.

Couldn't agree more.

84. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255944 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:37 pm

N.B.: Since there seems to be alot of confusion when I use terms like defending our values, or group-feeling or so on, let me see if the following explains it best: I think the more Geert Wilders's we have in power in Europe the better.

85. Debate: Would We Be Better Off Without Religion?

Comment #255939 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:32 pm

Annis,

"Atheism and communism are indivisible"

If that is the kind of drivel on that clip, I think I'll just skip it... Aiyaiyai...

86. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #255934 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:26 pm

You cannot bomb one bad country and claim you're spreading freedom and democracy and oil another bad country's ass and see nothing wrong with that.

Wrong. You can be helping out with the local salvation army, while doing nothing about what's going on in, say, Tanzania, and still be "helping the poor".

Believe me, I can't stand the Ibn Saud, but we're stuck with them.

Anyone who's using the "Saddam would have been better" argument can't say they're doing it out of mercy. That's just not an open argument.

87. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255930 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:20 pm

By that token ,should I discount anything you say on any Internet based messageboard?

No, merely the idea that it's "brave".

-------------------------------

Mitchell, this time I really need to call you out. How anyone can say Mononoke is a better film than the Utena, I cannot understand. Even if we're talking Ghibli, "Whisper of the Heart" is by far the better film. Sorry, I think that your judgement in this area is now permanenlty wrecked. :-)

88. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #255717 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:55 am

decius, how about virtual identity of their policies?

89. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #255714 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:51 am

Sheesh, yet another Commie. Yeah, "right-wing", sure: in favour of nationalized businesses, trade barriers, public schools, public transport, public health, public control of food (yes, that was part of it), tariffs, high-taxes, full of calls to common purpose and sacrifice for the great good... Yeah, a real right winger.



Logicel, ever heard the phrase "power without responsibility: the privelidge of the harlot throughout the ages"? A whorehouse has always stood for a place with no scruples and no conscience. Well, again, take a look at what the UN's troops were doing in the Congo, if you can stomach it.

90. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #255707 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:39 am

But it is a very good response to moronic people who say the US is the greatest nation in the world and is in charge of spreading the flower of freedom and democracy like a fairy spraying pixie dust and removing evil doers like Saddam.

The alternative of that happens to be making common cause with dictators and juntas in every part of the world, which everyone also complains about. You just can't please some people.

No, it isn't a good argument. Here's the simple math: send an invasion to Saudi Arabia and be prepared to have to nuke cities from Indonesia to Nigeria, because nothing else will stop what you'll face then.

As regards the US's track record, let's look at this objectively, shall we? Consider 9/11. If the Talibs had pulled a stunt like that with any other major power in history, their country would now be ash. Yes, ash. Once the Golden Horde was through with a city that that pissed it off, you could ride your horse across the place that city stood without it stumbling.

91. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255705 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:32 am

Ah! Now I understand. I have been very naive in not realising how much such terms would push the buttons of someone.

It's not so much the terms as the utter meaninglessness of the argument. I've heard arguments of the form "This guys a right-winger ,therefore..." applied to everyone from Pat Buchanan to Pim Fortuyn and Sam Harris. No, not joking about that last one.

If the VRWC really has this amount of members, someone isn't doing the paperwork right.

But yeah, that's the reason I've been so irritable. I can deal with all sorts of disagreements, I just dislike the automatic dismissal those comments involve.

Also, I really do find the terms "fascist" & nazi & the rest very, very offensive.

92. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255699 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:16 am

it also stands for Victorian Race Walking Club),

Fantastic. Wolfy is not going to be pleased about this.

However, I now realise it was a mistake to label such views "far right" or even "facist". Even if that is true, it does not help explain why I think they are mistaken. I have decided to concentrate on doing that.

Thanks. That is the source of much of my ire.

93. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255693 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 3:02 am

Steve, I'm referring to the fact that you have quit attacking everything I say on the grounds that I'm a card-carrying member of the VRWC (incidentally, we don't get cards, we get decoder rings), and therefore no further comment is necessary.

I am grateful for that.

94. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255685 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 2:42 am

hawt, I started reading from the post you mentioned. I honestly don't see the big deal.

There's a more broad point, though. Take this:

Do I think Diacanu's participation is on a par with yours and your partners' contemptuous tone in lengthy post after lengthy post.

That isn't the way I see it; from where I'm sitting, Diacanu has made no substantial contribution to any debate. Conversely, GoatBoy seems to be someone who has done his homework, knows his history and makes interesting points. That's why his and my posts are "lenghy".

But that's not the broad point. The broad point is that I was remaining neutral on this, which get's interpreted as being "cold". Which is a little wierd. Rest assured that I don't want another flame up on these threads, especially since Steve is sticking to his side of the bargain.

95. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255667 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 2:11 am

I don't think I'm being cold. I read back at the comment you suggested, where GB was irritated that you'd threatened to hit him (something I consider an overreaction on everyone's part, but whatever). I still don't see the huge problem.

96. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #255656 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 1:59 am

Oh, come on root. Started by that tussle between Ali and the caliph way back at the dawn of Islam.

97. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #255652 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 1:57 am

So as a "right-winger", you're responsible for Hitler then? Come on.

Well, hardly, since Hitler was left wing. The phrase "right wing" covers a seriously huge spectrum of views. I don't advocate for fascism, say, but there are those who do call themselves Marxists.

Fanusi - my comment was actually serious; I'd forgotten you were a libertarian, therefore I was pointing out that the distinction between our philosophies invites disagreement.

Seriously, it was an innocuous comment.

Ah well, no harm no foul, eh? :-)

I did not say we should have sent troops into Saudi Arabia either.

root, I didn't mean you specifically; I just meant in general. It's such a stupid remark.

98. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255650 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 1:53 am

Okay, hawt, I took a closer look at that business. To be honest, I cannae see your point. GoatBoy has said nothing that's anywhere near as bad as Diacanu and others have said. If it comes to being "patronizing", again, there's alot of that about.

99. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255641 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 1:46 am

Fanusi - you mean you missed the big showdown and, here, I thought you'd just hung me out to dry...

There was a big showdown? Sorry I missed it. I was in the library at the time, probably...

100. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #255639 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 28, 2008 at 1:45 am

LF, you may have noticed that I will fire back if someone says something along the lines of "Oh, I forgot you're a [right-winger/libertarian/whatever] therefore I don't need to engate with your points".

Don't want that trouble? Don't start it.