151. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288497 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:39 am

JanChan

You are the one who subscribes to "liberal" economic ideas. Where did you learn economics? They didn't even teach you the terminology right.

In the correct sense of the word "liberal economics"-free market, invisible hand and all that crap,-- is indeed not working, otherwise why all the talks about bail out?

152. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288487 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:32 am

Yeah, where did you learn your economics? The Chicago school or the Hong Kong school?

153. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288484 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:30 am

As I said, stop it at the source, stop giving the stupid working men so much money.

As Hitchens(?) said some argments need no refutation, they need to be underscored.

154. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288480 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:27 am

JanChan

What if what is right for the country is bad for the environment?

How can a bad environment be good for the country?

What is your definition of "right for the country"? There are more than short term profits and GDP.

155. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288475 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:22 am

And jobs get shipped abroad because we refuse to lower our standard of living, even by the tiniest bit.

According to data the living standard of the vast majority of American workers have actually declined since the 1970's. On the other hand the top several percents seen their wealth and income multiplied several times. So who are refusing to lower their standard of living?

156. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288472 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:17 am

JanChan

Let's see, you want the country's trade deficit to disappear, yet you want people to be paid as high as before so they can spend the money on other countries' goods, hmm makes perfect sense to me.

Trade deficit will increase if you ship all the production abroad and people with shitty pay can only afford to shop at Walmart and dollar stores where everything is made in China. Is that so hard to understand, Einstein?

But to recap, it was you who brought up trade deficit in a bizarre attempt to justify Bush's policy.

157. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288460 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:07 am

Jan

Because you guys raise taxes and the minimum income wage so that China outcompetes you.

They also lock up union organizers. So what now? Our workers should work for $2 a day in order to compete with China? What happens to progress?

158. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288458 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:04 am

AtheistJon

Do you have a point to make? You told us several times you were leaving this site in disgust. Why are you still hanging around to lecture us on netiquette?

159. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288454 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 1:01 am

JanChan

Well maybe you're producing too little, 2 sides of the same coin. Anyway, I'm one of the thriftiest guy you'll ever find.

Why do you think that is? Why do American companies shift all their manufacturing overseas?

160. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288444 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 12:49 am

Maybe you're consuming too much.

161. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288439 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 12:43 am

Jan Chen

BTW, what you said earlier about trade deficit is complele nonsense. There is a big trade deficit because Americans are consuming more than they produce and lots of American companies are outsourcing to China.

Now that's just taking a cheap shot. I already said "putting it bluntly"

Why is it a cheap shot? I am not sure you understand the meaning of "survival of the fittest" in the Darwinian sense.

162. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #288433 by Bonzai on November 22, 2008 at 12:36 am

The fittest in doing what? Are you going to have lots of kids?

163. I'm Not One Of Those 'Love Thy Neighbor' Christians

Comment #288330 by Bonzai on November 21, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Mitchell

Any aliens that were pricks like that would have eaten each other long before developing to that technological advancement. They would easily have the technology to wipe themselves out. They wouldn't last if they were a species of assholes.

Are you talking about us? But then maybe we will indeed wipe ourselves out before we get on long distance space expeditions.

164. I'm Not One Of Those 'Love Thy Neighbor' Christians

Comment #288328 by Bonzai on November 21, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Aliens could also be hiding from us. I think it is stupid to send out signal like we do. Aliens who are advanced enough to pick up our signals and pay us a visit may eat us for breakfast.

Better lay low. Has evolution taught us anything?

165. I'm Not One Of Those 'Love Thy Neighbor' Christians

Comment #288322 by Bonzai on November 21, 2008 at 2:24 pm

Steve

The same argument is used to support alien space-faring civilizations - they might exist beyond what we see in the universe

Umm.. Actually no. The existence of space faring civilizations doesn't violate any known law of nature. No magic is required. If they don't exist, it is just a fact, there is no logical reason for their non existence.

The claim that God exists presumes a lot more and is much less well formulated.

166. Bush set to relax endangered species rules

Comment #287903 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 11:56 pm

I hope the idiot is not going to start another war before leaving office.

167. God enough

Comment #287599 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 11:25 am

aq

Huh again (re#390)

Are you sure you are not answering someone else?

168. The Sea Turtle's Tale: Back to the sea, and back again to the land

Comment #287584 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 11:04 am

Maybe they mean "nude killer".

169. The Sea Turtle's Tale: Back to the sea, and back again to the land

Comment #287566 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 10:51 am

Richard Dawkins

What do you think of some Americans pronouncing nuclear as "new-cu-lar"? Now even I can't stand that. :)

170. The battle rages on in Texas

Comment #287549 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 10:32 am

Tyler

The priest had no issue with teens watching a movie rated 18, containing blood, guts, murder, zombies (go figure!)

Why so surprised? Isn't that what Jesus' story is all about, down to the zombie part?

**********************
A kid in a Catholic school saw the crufix hanging on the classroom wall. He asked the teacher, "who is that naked guy nailed to the cross?" The teacher hesitated a bit and replied, "See, this is a guy who failed school, if you don't work hard it will happen to you too!"

171. God enough

Comment #287541 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 10:23 am

aq

Huh?

172. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #287538 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 10:22 am

DP

But I am sure the left will find a way to blame this on Bush also.

"The Left"? Where the hell have you been for the last while? EVERYONE blames Bush, including McCain and Palin. Get a grip.

173. Is Obama the Antichrist?

Comment #287529 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 10:05 am

i heard the sing of the beast was actually 999

The "sing" of the beast? I didn't know that the anti-Christ is a rock star. Might as well, they always say music corrupts :)

174. The Sea Turtle's Tale: Back to the sea, and back again to the land

Comment #287521 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 9:54 am

Carto

I agree, the people who tend to correct pronunciation (or, rather, to recommend their own preferred pronunciation) are, almost without exception, snobs of the highest order. Generally they do this in order to show off a knowledge of the pronunciation in the original language, and thereby show themselves to be more cosmopolitan than you are. I find this roundly infuriating, especially since I hold no pretensions to being cosmopolitan and object to the idea that one would automatically assume it is a desirable thing to be.

Tell me about it! In my native Hong Kong there is a bunch of egg heads (actually it started with only one egg head) in one university pushing for "proper pronunciations" of the Cantonese dialect.

They have somehow gotten the attention of TV stations and the government so they are getting a lot of public exposure. They also force students who attend that university (a big one) to take a mandatory course on "proper spoken Cantonese" regardless of their majors. They claim that many common words are mispronounced and insist that these words should be pronounced in some obscure ways like they were 1000 years ago.

I think this is a joke, I have no idea how they infer the "correct pronounciations" because there were no tapes or CDs 1000 years ago, maybe they dug up some mummies and had conversations with them. Another thing is, Cantonese is a dialect and it is very informal and flexible. It is well known for its rich and colouful swear words, clever double entente and puns. You kill it the moment you try to make it too rigid.

The unfortunate part is nowadays media personalities and government spoke people actually switch to the "proper way" of pronunciations for fear of being labeled uneducated or illiterate.

Whenever I visit I would deliberately speak in the common way,--the "wrong" way,-- especially when I am in the company of "educated people". When faced with the language Stalinists the only way to respond is to give them the finger.I hate language police of all stripes, this ties in well with the discussion on the other thread.

175. God enough

Comment #287505 by Bonzai on November 20, 2008 at 9:35 am

She was convinced that she was "ok" with herself and didn't care at all what anyone else thought of her. In good fun (my type of fun) I said she did, and offered a $50 bet to prove it. She accepted saying this would be the easiest $50 she ever made, until I pointed out that she cared enough about what I thought of her to wager $50 to prove me wrong. Had she been fine with what people thought of her, she would have refused the bet and not cared about my opinion.

How do you come to that conclusion? She might just want to win $50!

EDIT: Mitchell just beats me to it.

176. Puncturing the Acupuncture Myth

Comment #287051 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 5:24 pm

Well, in a sense placebo effects work both ways. Many symptoms maybe at least in part psychosomatic in nature and pumping chemicals in your system probably would do you little good.

My late grandmother had a very strange faith in needles. I am not talking about acupuncture, but injection. Whenever she got sick she would demand the doctor to give her a shot, thinking that merely taking drugs would not cure fast enough.

At first the doctor of course refused and told her to go home and take the medicine. She would moan and groan and linger in bed for days complaining that the medicine didn't work. The next time when she got sick and went to the doctor, she would pester him again for a shot. After many times the doctor was finally fed up and gave her a shot whenever she visited. According to grandma she recovered much faster with the shot than without. She had a theory that the doctor refused to give her the shot before because he wanted her to come back for a second visit so he could bill her again.

My mother happened to go to the same doctor. A few years later the doctor told my mom that actually the shots he gave my grandma was just placebo shots of glucose solution. He did that because he was sick and tired of arguing with her.

Eventually everyone in the family knew that except grandma. But she did feel better.

177. God enough

Comment #287039 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 4:42 pm

James Stewart writes first year calculus text books.
He is at McMaster university. Beyond that I don't know anything about him.

178. God enough

Comment #287021 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 4:10 pm

Steve

Maybe you would like to take a look at this book if you haven't already

http://www.amazon.com/Symmetry-Perspective-Equilibrium-Chaos-Physical/dp/3764321717

179. God enough

Comment #287017 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 4:05 pm

Steve

There is an interesting connection with some of the work of Ian Stewart which shows how what appear to be complex biological structures or behaviours can come from very simple origins combined with certain patterns and symmetry. Examples are ways that animals walk, and patterns of colouration.

I know. Stewart and Golubitsky wrote a few books and many articles on symmetry breaking bifurcations. I know Martin Golubitsky and have taken a graduate course with him on this very topic.

180. God enough

Comment #287011 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 3:55 pm

shaunfletcher

What Kauffman is suggesting is that there are emergent principles in biology above the level of natural selection: the evolutionary equivalents of entropy and temperature, where natural selection is equivalent to the interaction between atoms.

Also below. So you can read "reductionism" either way, there is no up or down.:)

He seems (and I am not going further than seems as Im commenting on this article only) to be taking his illustrative parallel much much further than it deserves.

In his books and articles (and the works of others) he argues that there may indeed be universal principles underlying these apparently diverse phenomena beyond just laying out parallels. Afterall, ideas like bifurcations, symmetry breaking and self organization are universal.

181. God enough

Comment #286998 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Janus,

I've noticed a pattern: People who know they're wrong but don't have the guts to admit it to themselves have the following tendency in common: They absolutely love to call their opponents names like "fundamentalist", "radical", "totalist", "ideologue"

That may be, but sometimes the labels do fit.

Why do you think I should waste my time responding to tripe like the following?

I mean, wake up. First, he's an anti-reductionist. Supernaturalism is a sub-category of anti-reductionism.

Second, his favored 'explanation' for the mystery of consciousness is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that's just as mysterious. Explaining mystery with mystery is a trademark of supernaturalists.

This is exactly the kind of flimsy, PC motivated heretics hounding that I am talking about. I see no reason why he or I has to even honour this with an answer. Does a scientist have to clear with the Inquisition for "materialism" presided over by amateurs like yourself before he can do his research? Kauffmnan's ideas are extremely fruitful and interesting but I doubt that you can even understand. If you are so great write your own book to address the scientific questions he asks based on "reductionism",--whatever hell that means.

EDIT: Come to think of it maybe I was wrong in calling you the Grand Inquisitor, you sound a lot more like the party hacks in Stalin's Russia who denounced "bourgeois, non Marxist science" because some scientists seemed to have ideas that were at odd with "dialectical materialism",--at least to the uneducated ears of the Commissars,-- which was, of course the only true "scientific" worldview.

182. Giving Up on God

Comment #286969 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Actually the election outcome is troubling in some respect. I read that in Ohio Obama actually got less votes than Kerry did in 2004 even after so much work and money have been poured into the state to get the votes out. He won the state only because McCain was doing even worse. Apparently a lot of evangelical voters who supported Bush in 2004 were staying home because McCain was too liberal for them.

183. God enough

Comment #286963 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Janus

What the hell are you babbling about? Are you the grand Inquisitor? Sorry, I think scientifically you are out of your depth.

184. Is Obama the Antichrist?

Comment #286960 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 2:36 pm

Don't worry, Rev. John Hagee assures us that Obama can't be the anti-Christ because the anti-Christ can't be black.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mvFspqtGR4

185. God enough

Comment #286954 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 2:32 pm

I downloaded Wolfram's book from his website. It turned out to be a huge file (IIRC it was almost 900M) with no table of contents or index. I deleted it afterwords.

186. God enough

Comment #286947 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 2:28 pm

Brian

You mean the oft-repeated accusation that atheists are a mirror image of fundamentalists is true?

Not all atheists of course, not Dawkins himself. But sometimes I feel as if I am defending people against heresy charges in front of the Inquisition here.

I remember some posters on this site almost calling Dawkins a sellout when he admitted that he enjoyed singing in a Church around Christmas. Oh, the horror.

187. God enough

Comment #286934 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Brian

I am tired of the "atheistic correct" language police here. They are the Godless Puritans.

188. God enough

Comment #286928 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 2:11 pm

Caudi

Sorry, but "There's a consciousness in the universe,"

To add to Steve's point,--that we are conscious hence the universe is,-- when we contemplate on the universe, it is God engaging in introspection. How does that sound? :)

189. God enough

Comment #286916 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 1:50 pm

Are the Kauffman "critics" of this thread reform fundies? They seem to share with religious fundamentalists an inability to read beyond strict literalism.

I use "critics" in quotations because there isn't really any substantial criticism of Kauffman's idea here. All these "critics" try to do is in some ways paint him as a "supernaturalist" based on poor reading comprehension.

190. God enough

Comment #286907 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 1:40 pm

In a sense Kauffman is actually even more "reductionist" than Dawkins, it all depends on how you orient the direction of reductionism.

In the Neo Darwinian view exemplified by Dawkins, biological structures are the products of historical accidents and contingency. Natural selection is opportunistic and ad hoc. Kaffmann, however, argues that there are deeper structural principles at work in creating biological structures, in addition to to the haphazard working of natural selection. The origin of these principles is not biological, but from a lower level of physics, chemistry and universal laws that govern pattern formations.

That is why I never find words such as 'reductionism' too useful as they mislead easily.

191. God enough

Comment #286899 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Steve

Good posts.

192. Hitchens Debates Rabbi Wolpe on God

Comment #286577 by Bonzai on November 19, 2008 at 12:13 am

epeeist

Note his review of The Jesus Family Tomb: The Discovery, the Investigation, and the Evidence That Could Change History by Simcha Jacobovici. He is forced to admit that he hadn't actually read the book.

Maybe he is paid by Amazon.com to write reviews. Didn't he say he had to attend to a boring job for a while? I can see how it would be boring to review books that one hasn't read.

193. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #286565 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 10:42 pm

DP

Why don't these union leaders just buy out the company and run it the way they think it should be run. Let them actually have to be the CEO and lets see how well they run a company.

Because in this country people are brainwashed into thinking that workers cannot manage production themselves. CEO's and upper management have inflated compensations not because they are so indepensible for production, but because they (supposedly) serve the interest of concentrated wealth.

Check this out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragón

and this

http://www.hour.ca/film/film.aspx?iIDArticle=4553

194. Puncturing the Acupuncture Myth

Comment #286457 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 3:14 pm

deius

Most of your reply to my post regarding Diamond's evidence was adequately and brilliantly answered by NC. There is nothing I could add to those points.

I will reply to your other points (those are minor points) later when I am done with my work tonight. Stay tuned.

P.S. But if you don't mind me saying there is no reason to take a debate elsewhere to this thread and indulge in ad hominem when the people involved cannot defend their views.

195. Puncturing the Acupuncture Myth

Comment #286435 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Titania

decius,

What thread?

http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,3345,Atheism-a-positive-pillar,USA-Today,page5#286234

I think decius has a bruised ego after Naked Celt really demolished him so he has to take it here. :)

196. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #286130 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 8:10 am

nakedcelt

Where I disagree with the Marxists (quietly, on Saturday night, but I have not been shy about saying it in print in the past) is on the necessity of violent revolution. That, I think, more than anything else, explains the autocracy that Communist countries became. Socialists think Stalin was an aberration; I can't agree. Socialist revolutions have always ended up bringing dictators to power.

I think totalitarianism would be the likely outcome of any 'Utopian revolution', not just Communism. The goal of such revolutions is not simply to set up a new government and create new institutions, but to transform society at its core. They seek to recreate society itself. As such they need to recreate 'new people'. By that logic the new state/government can't be democratic because the "old people" would then be empowered.

When a Utopian revolution takes place in a country with predominantly "old" people, where most people lack the awareness and vision of the new society, such as Russia in 1918, or France in 1789, the revolutionaries have to murder the present in order to bring in the new, that's when it becomes deadly. These revolutions are like premature birth.

But I agree that Stalin was kind of an aberration. He fitted more into the old Tsarist mold than a communist revolutionary. Trotsky might have turned into a monster too had he won, but we would never know. Interestingly Lenin was planning to remove Stalin, sensing that there was something wrong with the man, but he was dead before he could do it.

Mao was a complicated character, I think it would not do history justice by attributing the Mao phenomenon to Communism. He was a great Emperor who had risen from the peasant rank. There were a few of those in Chinese history. He found his inspirations from the Chinese classics rather than Marx, as he himself admitted. Most prominent orthodox Marxists were purged from the CCP as soon as Mao took control of the party.

"Communism" in China was to a large part traditional peasant Utopianism mixed with some Marxist rhetoric. The 1949 revolution has a close precursor, the Tai Ping Rebellion in the 1860's. The similarities were uncanny, only that the Tai Ping rebels appropriated Jesus rather than Marx for their slogans.

197. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #286118 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 7:45 am

DP's view about education and taxes is entirely predictable because in his twised mind children are private property of the parents. So paying for state school system to raise the next generation of citizens (and tax payers) to him is like home owners paying property taxes.

198. Hitchens Debates Rabbi Wolpe on God

Comment #286115 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 7:39 am

God = Good Old Dianelos.

199. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #286106 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 7:20 am

Frankus

I use Youtube daily in my teaching. I use it to show the students cool and interesting and relevant stuff and we use it to share our own ideas and creations.

So, had Jim Prentice brought in his new copyright law you would have been toasted. Good that he is no longer the minster of industry.

200. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #286105 by Bonzai on November 18, 2008 at 7:17 am

Titania

My fourth grade teacher once told me that if you don't finish a book it means you don't understand it. Damn the woman, now I have to finish every book I start.

Or you understand it by reading just a few pages, most forth grade books are like that.