Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

Comment #252988 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 24, 2008 at 2:20 am

Couldn't agree more Titania Look at the insane dogmatism of Steve, Diacanu...

Comment #252981 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 24, 2008 at 2:08 am

Well, apart from anything else, Steve, Diacanu and others will not quit calling me all sorts of names, and I don't see you complaining about that.

There is a more important reason Corylus. I'd like to to sink in that this isn't an academic matter. It isn't just a random debate on the web. A great deal rides on this.

I was just struck by an interesting quotation by Aristotle: "Tolearance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."

I think he's right about that. When you're society is at the point where it considers indiscriminate tolerance a primary, it's defining characteristic (rather than achievement, reason, honour or one of the true virtues) then your society is in deep, deep trouble.

EDIT: A point illustrated by Steve getting incensed and angry about my comments about Elton, but his marked lack of anger about the Imams in the Mosques describing how gays will be crucified, the instant they have the upper hand.

Who's being childish here?

253. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252974 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 24, 2008 at 1:49 am

Sounds like a plan, Quetz. :-)

254. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252970 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 24, 2008 at 1:43 am

Titania,

Fanusi, can you agree to point people to the Islamist thread whenever you feel the urge to post "threat of Islam" points in a thread that really does not have anything or at least very little to do with said threats?

For the umpteenth time, I will do so, if Certain Others will not launch into a vitriolic hissy fit (never have so many been so loud while being so ineffective) that anything I write is automatically to be discarded.

There's also the point that the Islamic threat is, in fact, relevant in a great number of fields. The reason this thread got derailed is that I brought up the subject of Iranian nukes, and I submitted that whatever else you'll say about McCain, he's most likely to put a stop to that. This, since it didn't fit into the worldview of the usual suspects, prompted another raging torrent of abuse.

Here's another example, as this thread seems to have developed a subdiscussion about gayness. Now, a while back there was a huge kertuffle because the British Anglican Church appointed its first gay bishop, and the Nigerian branch threatened an en masse break, perhaps to join the Catholic Church. The chattering classes were just shocked that anyone could have such howwid opinions.

What none of these twits bothered to think about was that a reputation for gayness is the last thing you want when half your country is in the grip of Shariah and the local Islamoheavies are itching for any excuse to torch some churches.

One of the things I find so insufferable about the left - at least, in its modern incarnation - is this inability to understand that beyond their shores there are real people, with real lives, and that these lives aren't just a prop for leftist fantasies or self-dramatization. Also, despite all their drooling multiculturalism, they seem to find it hard to grasp the idea that other cultures work can work in a very, very different manner.
(for the record, I'm what I call homosnobbic: I have no problem with gays, but I deplore the decline in the quality of western homosexual. Things have really gone downhill since the days of Michaelangelo and Bennevuto Cellini).

Steve has expressed to you repeatedly why he gets upset with this and you keep picking at the wound. You are not going to make headway with your argument if you keep alienating him with this.

I am? Good. Nice to know I'm doing something right. Sorry, but there's no chance for "headway" (incidentally, that's pretty much what the Muslims want with Elton...) with Steve for the simple reason that you can't talk to people who are determined not to learn. There is one specific point I have made twelve times about why expelling goons like Abu Hamza will not lead to fascist degeneration, and Steve skippty-skipped over it every single time. I also end up with extremely plodding arguments where he insists that those who say they want Shariah law will vote against it in a referendum (I love this: expelling Shariah supporters and stopping Muslim immigration is "extreme", but holding a referendum to enslave Britain under the Shariah apparently isn't). Et cetera, et cetera. It's for this reason that I say that Steve will only change his tune once Stephen Fry starts auditioning for the complimentary role to Ichabod Crane.

Listen, when these fucks start going after my own family, do you really think that there is the slightest chance I give a damn how hurt Steve's pwecious widdle feelings get?

There is hope for Fanusi, after all, nowadays we can cure the plague and every once in awhile, I can keep a drug-dealer from being deported.

The other thing I find so absolutely insufferable about the Left is their complete inability to even consider that they might be wrong about something. That's not a problem I have when arguing with conservatives, mind you, and it's the basis I have for my conviction that honest, actual debate on matters of politics and ethics are more likely to be found on the right.

Goldy,

In London's historic "Inns of Court", barristers practise law in the shadow of the distinctive medieval Temple Church. But does English law really owe a debt to Muslim law?

Answer: No it doesn't. Next question. This is so patently idiotic only the BBC could take it seriously.

Steve, I am stunned that you can defend someone who says that you disgust them.

Oh come off it, Mitchell. Steve defends everything and stands for nothing.

255. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252801 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:59 pm

Logicel I have addressed this point no less than three times in this thread alone. Would it honestly kill you to actually read what I've written?

256. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252789 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:33 pm

*dryly* Goldy, it's not that I see myself as Davros, it's just that I'm a) a computational and molecular biologist, who is obsessed with recent advances in creating new intelligence from dissociated neurons, and b) I'm living in a time when we will likely have a debilitating CBN war. It's pretty inevitable.

Besides, have you seen the Middle East? It's completely flat. Let's see the little bastards try and run from Daleks now!

257. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252782 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:24 pm

hawt, please tell me you at least know who Davros is...

Titania, sorry, I'm being rather sporadic tonight. I have alot of work still left before I can sleep. Irritating...

What was the question again?

258. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252768 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:16 pm

hawt4dawk, that's one of the nicest things I've ever heard :-) Just call me Rotwang. (I'd prefer Davros, but you take your wins where you find them...)

For anyone who gets both references without google, kudos!

259. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252762 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:09 pm

Getting, close Sciros. :-P I have another infernal assignment to complete...

Ugh, and more and worse tomorrow...

260. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252756 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Pardon, Sciros, I often type when it's late...

261. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252749 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:56 pm

Oh, I didn't mean you! Heaven forfend. You've just been away for a while and things have been a little strained in your absence...

262. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252739 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:49 pm

I smoked about a pouch every two days, or more than a pack a day. Not, I didn't gain weight; I'm one of those people who never gains weight.

Goldy, props on knowing about the Kushans. :-) And thanks for the info.

263. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252733 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:45 pm

Laz, amen. I can relate to that. When things get really nasty, that stick of tobacco looks very, very tempting.

After recent events I had one. I know the risks, but things should be fine.

264. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252724 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:40 pm

hawt, I really dinnae want to get into this particular slog, but I wil observe that while I routinely get singled out for lies and smears, few people (Sciros, Styrer, AtheistJon & a few others are notable and recent exceptions) take umbrage at that.

265. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252722 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Actually, in my case it was Lazarus. I was worried that I'd have cravings, so I tried nicotine replacement (an inhalter). I found I 'need' only about one twenty-fourth of what's recommended, so apparently it isn't a physiological thing with me so much as a psychological one. But thanks, hey? :-)

266. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252713 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:30 pm

Lazarus, what do you expect? Islam is, basically, psychotic.

267. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252704 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:24 pm

Caudimordax, yup, that's a mainstream Islamic belief. The concept of the dhimmi can only be extened, in orthodox Islam, until the Day of Judgement, when Christ will return and explain that his gospel was really the Qur'an and that he is only a messenger of Allah. Then he and Muhammad and Moses will kill everything that isn't Muslim. More or less.

268. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252700 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Bonzai I don't wish Elton any harm. Apart from anything else, the same headhackers who are after him recently struck a bit closer to home for me. It's just that I see where this is going.

269. 'All Terrorists are Darwinists': An Interview with Harun Yahya

Comment #252697 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:18 pm

I've seen some of this guy's bullshit before. Hey, it's just one more load of lies by Muslims about he cause of Jihadism. Why should anyone be surprised?

270. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252688 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:09 pm

As a matter of fact, Vin, yes I have recently given up smoking. I wasn't aware I'd mentioned my smoking here though...

Steve you routinely post b.s. about me and then whine when you get a little of your own medicine? Cry me a river, why don'tcha?

If it matters, my comment about Elton John was meant to drive a point home. I tried arguing the moral case, only to have Steve go ballistic about the suggestion that there was such a thing as moral absolutes (which apparently only exist when he wants to condemn me...) So I tried to appeal to naked self interest, but apparently that doesn't work either. Now, it's a matter of simple, demonstrable fact that gays, including prominent ones (one mayor of Paris was almost murdered) are facing something alot worse than being not allowed to marry at the hands of Islam. You can ask Bruce Bawer about what's going on in Amsterdam, btw. Yet even these facts will not shake Steve's conviction that the real threat comes from my jackbooted minions who are prepared for an en masse fascist takeover...

(Nairb will start complaining that you can't say there's gay-bashing by Muslims without a proper statistical analysis in three, two, one...)

EDIT: Sorry, just reread your comment Vin. No, it's just that my quitting has become rather successful :-)

271. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252536 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 9:36 am

N.b.: hawt, sorry, but if there's a new Kristallnacht it's in France at the moment.

272. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252530 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 9:25 am

Incidentally, since this thread is nominally about Palin, I'll say that she and the Iraq war share an important characteristic which explains boths popularity: whatever their respective merits, given some of the people opposing them, neither can be all bad.

273. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252528 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 9:19 am

hawt4dawk, there is a very real difference between a society that considers slavery crime by the society, and one that tolerates slavery (yes, Saudi Arabia, sometime in the sixties - I think - officially banned slavery, and if you believe that, I have some California swamp land you might be interested in).

Note that your article discusses "sex workers". Now, take a look at this:

http://www.camelraces.com/

1) I don't accept your constant harassing of Nairb with "Show me the figures"

Lazarus, he tries the same with me. How about a complaint about that?

Which data and statistics has he shown that answer my specific objections and queries? Sorry, he can't throw his statistical weight around and then get upset when I ask statistical questions.

The thing is, the way that unsubtle Republican USA goes about tackling this doesn't seem to work that well.

You're telling me? Go over to JihadWatch and look up all the articles on Iraq. That's a fair summary of my views. Actually, here's a good one:

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/006850.php

If so many people agree with me, why, whenever I voice an opinion on any subject, even not related to Islam do I immediately hear cries that my views are to be dismissed post haste? Again, I raised the issue of Iranian nukes because I think that has some bearing on the upcoming election, and was promptly buried as Steve & others got their knickers in a twist over my "right wing fascism" (fascism is more of a lefty phenomenon, but whatever). Sorry, if I'm shoved like that, I'll shove back.

We are all very concerned about nutters getting a strong foot-hold in society, making it less possible for people like us to think, speak and act freely. We don't want them contolling our schools, we don't want them shaping our laws and we definitely don't want them indiscriminately killing people (civillians) just because they want us to stop, stare and be afraid. We don't want them, we don't like them, we won't tolerate them.

I'm very glad to hear you say that. I'm not being sarcastic. It's just, reading over this thread, I can't shake the impression that there are those who think that the real threat is from folks like me. Actually, Steve has said that he thinks my ideas are, quote, "more dangerous than those of any Muslim" (eat your heart out Osama!).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I submit that this suggests a distance from reality measurable in light years.

274. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252471 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 6:00 am

I did, Sarg. Didn't you get my reply?

275. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252466 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 5:40 am

gylesw, a Christian is someone who believes in the divinity of Christ. That's the definition. A Muslim is someone who believes in the divinity of the Qur'an, again, that's the definition. That this is the stance taken by just about all Muslims is admitted by every writer on Islam, even the most sycophantic.

That's why I urge people to read and study Islam for themselves, so they don't end up making comments like this that appear reasonable and common sense, but actually are based on assumptions that don't apply here.

276. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252452 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 5:22 am

Ain't my fault Diacanu that Steve's flounced off. I say it to his face when he's here too.

---------

Titania, I'm going to stay out of this particular argument, but I do have to point out that Christopher Hitchens has said that no less than three women, each uknown to the other, have told him that Bill Clinton raped them.

277. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252433 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:37 am

*chuckles* Sorry about that. Please, take it away, ir!

278. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252431 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:35 am

Sorry, Laurie, which mates are these, and what ideology motivated them? Sorry, what was that? Did hear the word "islam" squeak through lips tightly shut in resentment?

"Not allow the tiniest hint of criticism" - hey, my dear Laurie, come over to London. I'll carry a sign protesting Bush and American foreign policy. You carry one protesting Islamic imperialism. Let's see what kind of criticism is 'not allowed', shall we?

279. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252427 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:26 am

Hell, these Islamic sons of bitches have not just massacred entire peoples, they have so thoroughly erased cultures that most are hard pressed even to know anything about them. Who here knows about the Kushans? Or the Graeco-Buddhist cultures of the near east? Or the Zoroastrian civilization of Persia?

280. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252424 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:22 am

Sarg, I was being a little irate that after comparing me to a Holocaust denier, he backtracks and says we was just talking about how I "sound".

281. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252419 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 am

Except., epeeist, given what is going on throughout Europe, with respects to gays and Islam, my comment has some substance. Your has nil. None whatsoever.

If anyone here has 'holocaust denial' tendencies, it's those like Laurie who apparently will do anything to whitewash the record of Islam. Or don't the dead in the Sudan count for anything? Or the Christians of East Timor? Or the Hindus and Sikhs in the subcontinent?

EDIT: Oh, I see he wants to confine himself to commenting about my "tone". Why he cares about the tone of Holocaust deniers is beyond me.

282. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252416 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:09 am

epeeist, I'd have thought that such a squalid rhetorical maneuver was beneath you.

283. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252412 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:01 am

epeeist, who the heck is A.S. Marques?

284. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252411 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 4:01 am

Sargeist I would say that Islam has been responsible for more death than any other ideology the world has ever seen. I would further say that Laurie seems completely oblivious to the fact that the principle source of death in Iraq is the feuding mohammedans there, and the idea that this feud which has rages since Islam's inception can be blamed on the Bush administration is cretinous.

285. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252407 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:55 am

And this latest piece of nonsense frrom Laurie is exactly the reason why I "sound like a broken record".

Whether or not it matters, in the ousting of the Taliban, only five hundred ciivlians died, and the mainspring of death are those lovely Muslims that Laurie knows. It saves him, you see, from learning about history and theology, about reading the eyewitness accounts of those who have seen Islam undressed, or the defectros from the House of Submission who will say some rather different things about the doctrine. Above all it saves him from the possibility of hard thought and necessary risk. How can anyone now, or ever in the future, criticize Islam in a world where there is the Bush administration? It may be true that seventy million Hindus were slaughtered by their Muslim masters, it may be true that synagogues are burned in Paris, and the Jihad grinds on against all infidels whereever they may be found, and if there aren't any available, then against non-Arab muslims who will never be accepted as full Muslims - but what matters that to Laurie? Slaves are sold in Khartoum, baby-girls raped in Riyadh - what matters that, as long as there is a month of may where Laurie can stand against the Bush administration, the wellspring of all that is ill in this world?

286. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252401 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 3:43 am

Bonzai,

We're probably in agreement here, so if you'd just say what you mean by "in all cases", I'd be obliged. I mean, when Muslims are waging Jihad warfare, they're being Islamically inspired. When they're demanding that Dante be not taught in Italy, they're following the tenets of Islam. Ditto when they want the Danish cartoonists prosecuted. Or when Muslim councillors in Britain want everyone to observe Ramadan. Et cetera, et cetera....

---

I rather think that the contrast between Diacanu's first and second sentences combined with his complete obliviousness of that contrast, rather proves my point.

287. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252388 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:45 am

Bonzai, oh come on. Take a look at the much-praised article at the top of this thread. It's about people worried about Palin's motivation based on her Christian beliefs.

1000 years of jihad, give me a brea

Fourteen-hundred and twenty-eight, actually. When has the Jihad imperative ever been abandoned since the time of the Hijra?

It was a world of savage warfare and conquest throughout most of that time and Muslims were not the only one who went on rampage.

I've never claimed that they were. It's just that thanks to their religion, they've remained frozen in the past while the rest of us have struggled out of it. Read Andre Servier on this matter:

http://musulmanbook.blogspot.com/

288. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252385 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:32 am

I did. You seem to be pinning on Muslims ignoring what Islam actually teaches. That, I maintain, is wrong, and one of the ways we can see its wrong is that it's been a hope for at least the last two hundred years. If you want to see something freaky, go to your local University library, get Snouck Hurgronje's The Achehnese and read the last chapter about "The Future of Islam".

It also happens to be wrong because all the evidence shows that a horrific number of Muslims don't ignore these doctrines.

Now, am I right, or is there something else I'm missing?

--

EDIT: Bonzai,

But you are trying to tell us all Muslims are like a Borg collective, which is a gross simplification as we

I've already addressed that earlier, in response to JAM. I don't think that.

Worse, by forever second guessing any Muslim, no matter how sensible he or she actually is, just because of the Muslim label you work against integrating the Muslim population through exclusion.

Well, how do we distinguish between a Muslim-for-identification-purposes-only Muslim, and the real deal? That's one of the problems caused by taqqiya.

It's true that I think the hope for integrating Muslims is a fools hope. Whatever trouble I cause through my distrust is peanuts compared with what's caused by the doctrines of Islam itself.

289. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252379 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:18 am

Sarg, noted and corrected.

Mitchell then what, exactly, are you saying? That means of discourse I cited is depressingly familiar to anyone who spends any time in this field.

What are you saying then? That Islam's doctrines are hideous evil, but are ignored by enough and to such an extent that they are harmless - and that these doctrines can't become active again?

Anyway, I've got to work on my upcoming book: the Flagrantly Islamophobic Reader

290. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252375 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:10 am

On the subject of Moderate Muslims (last seen hanging out with the Yeti), here's a good article:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004034.php

291. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252373 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:05 am

alan so you agree with me about Islam? Can I quote you on that? Anyway, if we're talking about single records, take a look at Ian here.

292. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252371 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 2:04 am

Well you can argue with the people that call themselves Muslim but don't fit into your definition

Mitchell, even non-Jihadist Muslims have a level of faith and fervour that would be considered unusual and worrying in other religions. Ayatollah Ali Sistani makes Palin's preachers look like nothing.

Have you seen the levels of support in Britain for killing apostates, instituting Shariah, conducting Jihad? Now that is because of Islam's peculiar nature, which is immediately obvious to those of us who have studied it.

There's this wierd kind of double talk that goes on:

1. "These Jihadis are perverting Islam!"
2. *point to the basic texts of Islam*
3. "Most muslims ignore those texts the way that Christians ignore Leviticus."
4. *point to what Muslims actually believe, as demonstrated in poll after poll*
5. "But that's not real Islam...

Aaaaaand start again from point 1.

293. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252363 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 1:49 am

Oh, just on the subject of Steve & Certain Others - it's his abject gutlessness combined with his fatuous pretense at bravery that I find so repellent.

294. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252359 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 1:43 am

Oh, tw Ian so as I understand it, you agree that my characterization of Islam and the threat is poses is right, yes?

295. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252358 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 1:41 am

Just for those who keep commenting about my "obsession" - if you read Victor Klemper's diaries from the time of the Reich, you'll find people telling him that he needs to get his mind off all this stuff.

one of the sharpest guys on this site

Styrer, I'm blushing. :-)

Bonzai,

In the west, Muslims are a weak minority overa

Minority, yes, but weak? Remember, we have Shariah courts now in Britain. If we are facing that now, what will we face ten years down the road?

It seems simplistic to say that it is all the Quran and the Quran alone.

Of course it isn't the Qur'an alone (that a heretical viewpoint). It's also the hadith and sira and the schools of jurisprudence. And please don't talk to me about "secular nationalism". That's one of the main problems I have with people equating Christianity and Islam. The concept of secularism and of church-state separation is principally a Christian legacy. In Islam that distinction simply does not exist. Saddam Hussein and the rest are about as secular as Hitler was (it remains an article of faith on the right that Hitler was secular, and it similarly remains an article of faith on the left that Saddam was secular).

That's one of the reason I urge people to do the reading themselves, to study the texts and the histories. To read people like Snouck Hurgronje, Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina and the rest and learn about Islam for themselves.

f Sharia in the West are not the moderate Muslims, but secular "multi-cultralists". At least that was how it appeared when the Islamists pushed for Sharia in Ontario. It was shot down not because of the protest from atheists, but as a result of a spirited and loud campaign by Muslim women and liberal Muslims such as the Canadian Muslim Congress. The atheistic, "enlightened", tolerant Western "liberals" who embrace diversity were ready to give it a go (As a proud liberal myself I don't use the word as a slur, hence in quotations)

Okay, that's an excellent point, Bonzai. I'll definitely take it on board.

I could rephrase my previous point as saying that, just from their presence, the moderate Muslims inflate the numbers that our know-nothing multiculti twerps use as an excuse to bend over.

-------------------

Styrer,

Does this grant you a sliver of light in the darkness?

It does, but not the one people usually think of. It's a hope that mass-apostasy will become possible. I really think that "reforming Islam" is a waste of time. It can't be reformed, it can only be destroyed.

I also think it is a telling and troubling admission that on this site people have no problem discussing the end of Christianity but when it comes to Islam quite a few seem to change to "well, maybe, possibly, somehow it could be reformed". I think that says alot about the different holds of the two doctrines.]

-------

And now, with infinite reluctance, I turn to Mitchell:

Irrelevant if they don't adhere to them, now isn't it? Which was what Bonzai was saying. Muslims are people like any other, and are quite capable of rejecting and accepting whatever they think is right and wrong just like Christians.

El wrongo. That presupposes an equivalence between religions that does not exist. No set of beliefs is infinitely malleable. Firstly, a Muslim can no more doubt the perfection of the Qur'an and remain a Muslim than a Christian can doubt the divinity of Jesus and remain a Christian. Secondly, the Bible is a vast and vague book. It's very easy to pick and choose. That isn't so with the Qur'an. If you bother to read it, you find a very tight, self-consistent doctrine that argues on almost every page for hated and contempt for the kafirs. Actually, there is a good interview about that subject here:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=76B12F33-3165-47D1-80ED-C3F1ACD07D8A

To reform Islam, you'd have to remove everything that preaches hatred against the kafirs: 61% of the Qur'an, 75% of the Sira and 20% of the Hadith. Remove that, and you'll have reformed Islam. You will also have destroyed it.

As for the rest of your post - yes, as a matter of fact, Muslims do take to the path of Jihad more than any other group (funny thing that) and something like two hundred million Muslims support the 9/11 attacks (another funny thing), and only Muslims are potential targets of Islamic radicalization (funny thing number 3).

Then there is the narrow and foolish view of Jihad as only qital, combat - what we call terrorism. It isn't just that. It's cultural imperialism, the money weapon, demographic conquest, immigration specifically for the purposes of spreading Islam (hijrah), targeted campaigns of Da'wa and so forth.

In molecular biology, there are a number of words you need to know before you can even start to discuss things: RNA, operon, amino acid etc. Well, in discussing Islam, you need to understand the following terms in their totality before you can begin to even discuss it:

Taqqiya,
Kitman
Da'wa,
Hudna
Shariah
Jihad
dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb
Kafir
Dhimmi
Kharaz
Jizya
Takfir

296. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252332 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 12:13 am

Do you think it is necessary to have a theological reformation in Islam before Musllms can become secular or secularized? I somehow don't think it is. Jews in Western Europe were "moderate" before there was reformed Judaism. In fact, moderate versions of Judaism seem to be the result of Jews becoming less religious, not the cause of it

The trouble, Bonzai is firstly doctrinal: judaism is exclusive to one people, it isn't a conquering and proselytizing faith the way Islam is. Secondly, the jews were always a weak minority.

The second problem is that, even "moderate Muslims" can revert to full-blown jihadi mentality with no warning. Also, even the reasonable Muslims in Europe, simply by inflating the numbers, provide extra weight to the demands of the nutcases.

Basically the way I view the Muslims as a whole is that they seem largely divided between those who support Jihad and Shariah and those who do absolutely nothing to stop them. The real Tiny Minority Of Extremists isn't the Jihad supporters, but those who speak out against the Jihad. They just aren't enough to stop it, especially since they are much closer to ex-Muslims or apostates.

I have always agreed with Ali Sina that if the world's Muslims ever realized what Islam was, 90-plus percent of them would become apostates. I have also said that it is incumbent on us to help Muslims escape the mental prison of Islam (this is another fact that gets skipped over by those hell bent on viewing me as hating all Muslims)

297. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252330 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 23, 2008 at 12:03 am

Vin, for once we agree. That's a rarity. :-)

Anyway, I believe someone mentioned Dubai - oh, yes, it was Goldy. Not wishing to be continuously gloomy here, but I'm not going to think of Dubai as a hopeful sign until it quits buying slaves. Sorry, slavery kinda rules them out for me.

298. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252328 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 22, 2008 at 11:59 pm

I investigated the claim, got the data , analysed , searched for corroborateing data and reports in reputable sources and presented the results. I published the EU report here on RD.net and priovided examples of ho such a model works. His confident scare stories that France and Holland would have muslim majorities in two generations were bunk. That was for his claim.

Are you even capable of telling the truth, Nairb? First of all, we were discussing France, not Holland. Second of all, when you posted the report I duly thanked you, but I had a number of queries and reservations. Specifically, I had three questions, none of which you have responded to satisfactorily.

Now, it was, in fact, Hugh Fitzgerald who mentioned France being majority Muslim in two generations (a claim that, btw, Sam Harris has echoed - actually, he said it would be in twenty-five years). You used this to claim that all of JihadWatch was untrustworthy. I asked why a) he was wrong, and b) why this wasn't just a simple mistake? I received only a partial answer for the first, and nothing but a torrent of insult for the second.

For all that your prance and posture as a voice of science, you are very, very reluctant to provide evidence yourself and reply to specific questions. It's a little harder, isn't it, when someone challenges you?

Although, given that you're the guy who's said that a generation is twenty years, and that each population in Europe contains five generations, your connections with the facts seems by definition tenuous.

Now are you finally going to repost that report so that I can take another look at how it adjusts for the points I've mentioned? I very much doubt it; you are going to keep withholding evidence while beating your breast about how you provide it.

------

EDIT:

Still nothing from Steve.

Still waiting, Steve. I would appreciate an answer.

Good luck, Styrer. I very much doubt you'll hear anything.

299. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252164 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 22, 2008 at 2:49 pm

*dryly*

If everyone would kindly stop derailing threads and insulting everyone else that would be just super.

Got no probs with that, Quetz.

300. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252150 by Fanusi Khiyal on September 22, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Corylus, decius I'm fine with that, if you will also ask certain people to quit derailing any other thread I post on with a string of abusive ad hominems.